In Japanese culture, there have been many from the ancient times who stand out as icons, but none quite like the samurai and the ninja. While both were feared for their fighting abilities, one was a metal-clad, honor-bound noblemen, and the other was an unorthodox and stealthy assassin willing to do anything for the right price.
Oroku Saki, the Shredder. Kenuichio Harada, the Silver Samurai. These two armor-clad warriors have faced many mutants and enemies before, but now they’ll face each other to see whose blade is made of the stronger steel.
In Case You’re Wondering…
While Oroku Saki and Kenuichio Harada are constants in the identity of these characters, both have had wild variances to their stories. There have even been numerous characters to take the names of “Shredder” and “Silver Samurai”, such as their respective children of Karai and Shingen Kenuichio. But according to Ben Singer, they’ll be focusing on the versions of Oroku Saki who are human (so basically everything except the 2003 cartoon), and they’ll be focusing on the original Harada from the comics and won’t be taking into account his movie appearances.
Background
Shredder
Regardless of any incarnation or time period, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles have always had to contend with the Foot Clan, a group of ninjas stretching back from Feudal Japan which claimed a stranglehold over the criminal underworld for centuries. Despite the Turtles’ own awesome ninja skills, the clan’s leader has always remained one of the biggest threats to the brothers’ quest to keep the peace in New York, and will not stop until he goes unopposed in his domination. This man is known as the Shredder, Oroku Saki.
Saki’s destined battles with the Turtles stretched back to Japan, where he rose up the Foot Clan’s ranks. During his time in the Foot Clan, he became friends with fellow clan member, Hamato Yoshi. However, this friendship would be put to the test when both men fell in love with a woman named Tang Shen. Eventually, Shen chose Yoshi over Saki, and angered by this, he followed the couple to New York and fought his former friend. However, during their battle, an enraged Saki accidentally struck down Shen when she tried to defend her love from blow intended for Yoshi. When the building burned to the ground and their conflict, Shredder returned to Japan and became the Foot’s leader. The newly-formed Shredder then took the clan’s operations global, engaging in terrorism, drug smuggling, money laundering, arms dealing, assassinations and other criminal activities.
However, his operations in New York were continuously foiled by the TMNT, who were trained by the mutant rat of a man that Hamato Yoshi had become. Now forced to deal with these new threats, the Shredder has remained the Turtles greatest enemy, constantly plotting ways to bring their downfall while expanding his clan’s influence.
Silver Samurai
The Silver Samurai was born Keniuchio Harada, the bastard son of Shingen Harada, leader of the Yashida criminal clan, with a mutant woman. Having inherited his mother’s mutant genes, Keniuchio followed the path of a mercenary, using his sword training and powers to fight for the highest bidder. Donning a set of silver feudal armor and brandishing a katana enhanced by his mutant ability over Tachyons, he became a sell-sword under the name of the Silver Samurai, often allying himself with villains like HYDRA.
While his criminal ties caused him to clash with multiple superheroes like Wolverine and Spider-Man, the Silver Samurai has since tried to reform his ways after inheriting the Yashida clan following the death of his half-sister Mariko. Turning to the side of good, he fought alongside old enemies in service to his country and assisted the Japanese government's own crime-fighting efforts, such as leading their fledgling superhero team, Big Hero 6.
He is currently deceased in the mainline Marvel canon, with the mantle of the Silver Samurai being inherited by his villainous non-mutant illegitimate son, Shin.
Fighting Styles
Shredder
Ninjutsu
Ever since he was young, Oroku Saki trained in the arts of a ninja. When he was older, he rose through the ranks of the Foot Clan thanks to his prodigal skills, which made him an execellent teacher for newly recruited Foot memberssuch as Karai and Chris Bradford. Shredder is a feared ninja master in the TMNT universe who can only be rivaled by Splinter and sometimes Leonardo.
Kenjitsu
During his training, Shredder has become a skilled swordsman. When fighting with a sword, Saki will often adopt a very aggressive fighting style of rushing down his foe and leaving them no time to maneuver, which forms a deadly combination when brought together with his other weapons and skills.
Bojutsu
Shredder is skilled in the art of Bojutsu, a Japanese martial arts style that focuses on training with a bo staff.
Pressure Point Fighting
Shredder has displayed knowledge of pressure point fighting during his fight against Leatherhead in the Nickelodeon cartoon. This style of fighting involves quick strikes to body nerves which stuns the opponent and puts them in extreme pain to the point of disorientation or loss of consciousness.
Silver Samurai
Kenjutsu
Kenjutsu, A.K.A “the art of the sword”, is the discipline practiced by many samurai in history, and the Silver Samurai is no exception. Having been trained in swordplay and other martial arts since his childhood, Harada can defend himself within close-quarters regardless of if he boasts and weapon or not.
Karate-Do
Karate-Do is a fighting style that focuses in defense, reacting to your enemies attacks and then counterattacking but using their own strengths against them, making it quite the versatile fighting style.
Jujutsu/Aikijujutsu
Jujutsu/Aikijujutsu is a style of martial arts that has been employed by both martial artists and samurai warriors. Jujutsu specialises in grappling/holding foes down, throwing them down on the floor and using their foe’s strengths like their momentum against them. Often when samurai were without their swords, they would employ this method as a means of taken down foes and Silver Samurai is no different.
Iaijitsu
This is known as the quick-draw sword technique. It basically involves the user quickly drawing their sword in order to hit or counterattack an opponent.
Tantojutsu
Tantojutsu is a fighting style that specialises in using daggers/knives. Often when Silver Samurai has his sword knocked away, he will use his Tanto for a surprise attack. He is extremely skilled at using it in battle.
Ninjutsu
Silver Samurai is skilled in Ninjutsu, an unconventional fighting style that focuses on stealth, quick attacks and eliminating the enemy as fast as possible. Silver Samurai will use this skill as a means of taking out his foe quickly.
He also has two other fighting styles: Kyujutsu (samurai archery), Bajutsu (fighting on a horse), as well as being a master in samurai tactics and leadership, to the point that he was able to successfully run his clan for quite some time.
Equipment & Abilties
Shredder
Armor
Shredder wears armor that has been passed down through the Foot Clan from generation to generation that is designed to be extremely resistant to physical damage while allowing the Shredder plenty of maneuverability, though its exact composition remains unknown. Shredder’s armor mainly consists of blade-covered metal plaques covering his shoulders, forearms, hands and shin, giving Shredder multiple options of stabbing you even without his claws. Plus it’s great for intimidation.
Tekkō-kagi Claws
Shredder’s weapon of choice are his trusty Tekkō-kagi, or “back of the hand hooks” which he attaches to his arm. There have been numerous variations of this weapon through all the alternate versions of the Shredder but one thing has remained the same, Shredder’s claws are a deadly close-ranged weapon that are capable of slicing through plenty, from mutants to steel. They are designed to compliment Shredder’s fighting style which focuses on brutal close-quarters combat and overpowering the foe.
Katanas
While his main weapon is his claws, he has used a katana on numerous occasions and is shown to be skilled in Kenjutsu. The katana is designed to deal a quick yet fatal blow to an adversary and a skilled swordsman can take out multiple foes without breaking a sweat.
Kunai
Like other ninja in popular media, the Shredder possesses an arsenal of kunai. They’re either used as deadly projectiles or useful knives to stab an opponent.
Shurikens
Shredder has shown to carry an arsenal of ninja throwing stars, also known as shurikens. He possesses two types of shurikens: regular and exploding.
Thermite Grenades
Oroku Saki always carry a few thermite grenades with him for special emergencies, such as taking down opponents along with him. Because of their heat and volatility, thermite grenades are almost never used as an offensive or defensive weapon against people. The weapon is used almost exclusively for destroying enemy materials in a secure and controlled environment.
Thermite grenades (designated the M14) are one of the most destructive weapons used by the U.S. military. It’s a powerful incendiary device used to produce intense heat through a chemical reaction and destroy anything it touches. When detonated, thermite grenades produce molten iron from a violent reaction of the weapon’s thermite filler. Some thermite grenades have been known to burn at temperatures of nearly 4,000 degrees Fahrenheit (~2204.444 degrees Celsius). Thermite grenades are capable of burning through an engine block in seconds. Therefore, the extreme heat makes thermite grenades great for destroying enemy weapons/gear caches, bunkers and vehicles. These are the type of targets that are ideal for use of the thermite grenade. The chemical makeup of Thermite is aluminum powder and a metal oxide.
Smoke Grenades
Like every ninja, Shredder uses smoke bombs or smoke grenades as tools of distraction in order to escape.
Bo Staff
Shredder also possesses a bo staff in his arsenal. While not the most deadly weapon for a ninja to use, it can still leave an opponent in a world of pain.
Laser Blaster Rifle
In the 80s TMNT cartoon series, Shredder’s robotic Foot soldiers alongside Bebop and Rocksteady are stocked with a large supply of laser blaster rifles. However, Shredder would occasionally use these weapons to blast his reptilian enemies. These lasers are seen to melt and pierce metal.
Hologram Projector
One of the Shredder’s tools from the 80s is a hologram projector, allowing him to change his appearance at will. It can be used on other people as well.
Anti/Reverse Gravity Ray
Shredder and Krang created a machine that controls the effects of gravity, allowing the villains to increase and decrease it at will. However, the effects only works on anything touching the ground and not anything above it (ex: birds, blimps). Shredder carries a remote that’s linked to the machine and wears anti-gravity boots that keeps himself from being affected by the machine. Increasing the weight of gravity, lamp posts and trash cans can easily be crushed as a result while people are unable to move. Decreasing the weight of gravity, many items including New York buildings and skyscrapers are uprooted into the air.
Retromutagen Ray Generator
There has been times when Shredder decided to defeat the Turtles by simply reversing their mutation. A genius in the field of technology, Shredder decided to invent the Retromutagen Ray Generator. This gun is capable of undoing any being’s mutation, whether turning a mutant rat back into a human or four mutant turtles back into four pet turtles.
Mutagen
In numerous Ninja Turtles media, Shredder used the mutagen on himself to mutate into the hulking monstrosity known as the “Super Shredder.” In this form, Oroku Saki possesses various powers and abilities.
- Greater strength
- Greater speed
- Greater durability
- Superior senses - Saki’s senses have been heightened to the point that he can detect Splinter with hearing and smell
- Lightning Bolts/Electricity - In this mutated form, Shredder can generate electricity into his claws, shoot a lightning bolt into the sky to cause more to strike down, create electric fields and surge an area with electricity, surround his body with electricity, and attack with waves and blasts of electricity.
- De-Mutation - In this mutated form, Shredder can shoot green blasts of energy that de-mutates his opponents.
- Spikes and Claws - As shown in the 2012 TMNT cartoon series, Super Shredder can generate metal claws and spikes from his body. He can also shoot spikes of metal as deadly projectiles.
Silver Samurai
Tachyon Field
Silver Samurai’s primary mutation involves creating a field of faster-than-light particles called Tachyons. While he can channel this through his body and anything else, he mainly uses it to buff his sword’s cutting potential beyond what it would normally be capable of doing. Thanks to this, he can cut through virtually any alloy (including reinforced Titanium), in existence save for a few like Adamantium. Like Guts’s Dragonslayer, it can also cut astral beings.
Sword Techniques
- Hyakuretsu Tou - A series of sword slashes
- Running Hyakuretsu Tou - Unlike the normal variation, Silver Samurai does a series of slashes while moving towards the foe
- Raimei Ken - Silver Samurai summons forth lighting from his sword. Only used when in Lightning Mode
- Hyouga Ken - Harada jumps up and then stabs his sword into the ground, freezing the floor.
- Homura Ken - Silver Samurai using his sword creates an upwards fire attack
- Touki "Kaminari" - Buffs himself with lighting. Increases his speed.
- Touki "Honoo” - Buffs himself with fire. Increases his offensive power.
- Touki "Koori" - Buffs himself with ice. Increases his health.
Armor
Silver Samurai wears a suit of steel armor that has been in the Yashida Clan for centuries. Due to it being lightweight (weighing 60 pounds/27 lbs), it gives Silver Samurai extreme mobility while in combat and acts as a defense against potentially fatal attacks.
Katana
Silver Samurai’s trademark katana has no special properties, so to speak. It is however his favored tool for channeling his tachyon field, allowing him to cut through almost anything that gets in his way. In the past, he has wielded a few unique katanas, such as the Yashida Clan’s ancestral blade. But his prefered blade is the Black Blade known as the Muramasa.
The Black Blade is many centuries old and possesses a variety of mystical properties which it grants to those who use it. The Muramasa blade has shown to be virtually indestructible being able to withstand Wolverine’s Adamantium claws. The blade also grants superhuman strength and resistance to injury to whoever wields the sword. Its main weaknesses is that with time the Muramasa will eventually overcome the will of the user.
Tanto/Hidden Blade
If Silver Samurai wants to kill his enemies stealthly or catch them off by surprise, this will do the trick. He is also a skilled Tantojutsu user and at fighting using a knife.
Kunai
Silver Samurai, like a true Japanese warrior, has used Kunai on occasion. Usually as a long ranged weapon to distract his enemies, though he tends to use Shuriken more.
Shriukens
When at a distance, Silver Samurai will often employ shurikens as a means of attack. He is able to quickly rapid fire them at once and has been shown to be able to throw 6 of them at once.
Holograms
During Big Hero 6 and Sunspot he used two different types of Holograms: disguise Holograms that made his appearance look different, and projection holograms, holograms that would project an image to everyone who was watching.
Teleportation Ring
Given to him by recurring ally, Viper, this special ring allows Silver Samurai to teleport anywhere in the world whenever it is twisted (first using it in the Spider-Man/Saturday Night Live Crossover. Yes, that is a thing). He can use this Teleportation Ring to easily get himself to safety or teleport someone to another place.
Feats
Shredder
Overall
- Trained with the Foot Clan at a young age and climbed through the ranks, eventually becoming leader
- IQ of 300
- Is one of the most skilled fighters in the TMNT Universe
- Has singlehandedly defeated all four turtles at once during many of their encounters
- Has tried to conquer the world and almost succeeded numerous times
- Killed Master Splinter twice; once via a literal backstabbing, and the second as Super Shredder
- Fought toe-to-toe with Batman in a crossover, who had to wear a mech suit in order to contend with the Shredder
- Has remained the mortal enemy of TMNT and one of their toughest adversaries, even with them having faced aliens, cyborgs, demons and all sorts of mutants and magical beings.
Strength
- In the 2012 cartoon, he could easily defeat the Turtles who can tank small building busting attacks from The Stockman Pod
- His claw cut through part of Dogpound’s body, who minutes earlier totally tanked a city block sized explosion so powerful it created a mushroom cloud which means it must have carried at least 14 kilotons of force
- Fought on par with Master Splinter, who defeated an enraged Leatherhead, easily beat Dogpound and Fishface at the same time, and stopped Tigerclaw multiple times
- In 2012 he oneshot Leonardo after he had just defeated Fishface, Razar and Tigerclaw at once, putting the Turtle in a coma three months.
- Then went on to beat up Splinter, then easily defeat Leatherhead before getting into a final battle with Splinter which Saki won
- Scales past Tigerclaw who can cut through the hide of a Kraang worm, which create large earthquakes across NYC.
- Has singlehandedly beaten numerous Triceraton troops, and these guys are above any conventional mutants in the series, capable of bodying heavy-hitters like Slash, Leatherhead and Rocksteady, and tanking fire from all the Kraang’s weapons
- Shredder’s claws are strong enough to cut through and crush cash registers.
Speed
- Could easily defeat the Turtles who can run at a comparable pace to and dodge missiles from The Stockman Pod
- Defeated Leonardo who outran a large explosions blast
- Constantly fighting on par and above the turtles and Casey Jones who are able to dodge and block point blank lightning in this series
- Can fight all four turtles at once, who can fighter pilot the Kraang stealth ships in real time at full speed. One stealth ship went from the ground to the halfway point between the earth and the moon in 42 seconds (as stated by the resident brainiac, Donatello). That’s 4,576,190.5 m/s or 1.5% the speed of light, meaning Shredder has at least sub-relativistic reaction speed.
- Can contend with the Turtles in speed who can easily outrun machine guns.
Durability
- Could endure several hits from the Turtles who can damage the small building busting Stockman Pod
- Took repeated punishment from Leatherhead and Splinter, including being repeatedly chomped on by a giant alligator, being hit into a building so hard it rattled the whole thing, falling hundreds of feet and being hit directly by Splinter’s strongest attack, each time immediately getting up like nothing
- Got crushed underneath an enormous stone statue and was basically fine
- Able to withstand a blow to the head from Donatello’s staff (the action broke the staff), which can knock out giant raptors
- At the end of the 1990 TMNT movie, Shredder fell into a garbage truck and got crushed by its trash compactor. In the next movie, he was shown to be alive and well
Silver Samurai
Overall
- Defeated Baymax, who had knowledge of every known fighting style and an enhanced exoskeleton.(Sunfire and Big Hero Six Issue 2)
- Has fought and matched Wolverine through their many battles (though many of them were stalemates) with his main victory coming in his final battle against Wolverine when he was alive, which was pretty much his win though Logan denies it. He did get an almost victory when he was possessed by the Muramasa blade, though he has also lose against Wolverine (multiple Wolverine comics)
- Was chief of security for the prime minister of Japan (New Avengers Issue 13)
- Has fought Spider-Man numerous times, matching and even overpowering him (though Spider-Man usually gets help fighting him). The two main times he fought Spider-Man being Spider-Man/Black Widow teaming up against him and Spider-Man and the cast of Saturday Night Live (Marvel team up featuring Black Widow and Spider-Man and Marvel team up featuring Spider-Man and the cast of SNL)
- Fought Jessica Drew A.K.A Spider-Woman multiple times. The first was when Jessica was possessed by the Muramasa blade, which SS won (Wolverine 1988). The second was in a normal fight and Harada won again, though he did lose a fight against Spider-Woman when he took off all of his armor. (Spider-Woman Issue 42,43)
- Has repeatedly fought Wolverine in hand-to-hand and sword-based combat. Logan is noted to respect Harada’s skill, and has trained under him several times. (multiple Wolverine Comics)
- Killed multiple Black Samurai: beings that were created in the Silver Samurai’s own image, though this battle would lead to his death (Wolverine 2010 issue 1)
Strength
- When enhanced by the Tachyon Field, Silver Samurai is easily strong enough to break through this concrete wall. (Wolverine 1988)
- Silver Samurai was strong enough to throw Spider-Man into a concrete pillar and temporally daze him (Marvel Team Up Featuring Black Widow and Spider-Man)
- Tachyon Field sword is strong enough to effortlessly slice a concrete pillar as well as steel beams (Marvel Team Up Featuring Black Widow and Spider-Man)
- When enhanced with the Tachyon Field, Silver Samurai’s katanas is strong enough to effortlessly slice through:
Speed
- Stealthy enough to sneak up heroes like Spiderman and Daredevil, whose powers can normally counter stealth. (Marvel Team Up Featuring Black Widow and Spider-Man and Daredevil 1964 Issue 111)
- Able to quickly react to someone about to fire a gun and disable them with a shuriken before they can fire it (New Mutants Issue 5)
- Able to quickly react to a motorcycle heading towards him and was fast enough to dodge out of the way and slice it in half while it was still moving. (New Mutants Issue 5)
- Gets shot at and before it hits, Harada draws his sword and slices the bullet in half. (Rouge 2004 Issue 9)
- Fast enough to sneak up on Beast, who has superhuman senses and reaction speed, and stab him in the back (X-Men Issue 21)
Durability
- Was able to fight on in his last battle against the Black Samurai even after getting a sword stabbed through his stomach and being forced to pull it out. (Wolverine 2010 Issue 1)
- Has tanked blows from some of the strongest street level heavy-hitters including good ol’ Wolvie and a very much pissed Luke Cage (New Avengers Issue 13)
- Black Widow’s Widow Bite, which can charge up to 30,000 volts, did barely anything to Silver Samurai (Marvel Team Up Featuring Black Widow and Spider-Man)
Weaknesses
Shredder
As much of a deadly badass as Saki is, this ninja master still possesses some weaknesses. Despite all those death defying feats he’s performed, Shredder still has the weakness of being human and a mortal man. He is not immune to death and has perished numerous times throughout the franchise’s run. Shredder is also almost obsessed with vanquishing his foes, and will even sacrifice his own life and others if it means that he can take that of his accursed enemies, such as when he allowed the entire planet Earth to be destroyed just so he could be the one to end the life of Hamato Yoshi.
Silver Samurai
Despite the impressiveness of Silver Samurai’s tachyon field, it is still unable to cut through insanely tough substances like Adamantium, and his armour is not indestructible, as shown that time Wolverine was able to cut one of his hands off. Another weakness is his honorability; the Silver Samurai will always prefer a fair fight over an unfair fight as he desires to fight enemies at their maximum potential without cheating. And while his armor does allow him a fair bit of maneuverability, he has trouble against foes who are faster than he is, like Spider-Man for instance. He also has trouble against characters who use their fists as they usually can land a few good blows before the SS can strike back.
Summary
Shredder
Advantages:
- Faster
- Smarter
- Wider arsenal of weaponry
- Armor is made of better material
- Technically has more experience
- Gravity manipulation is possible if Anti/Reverse Gravity Ray is allowed
- Very accustomed to fighting foes with samurai swords and fighting style
- More level-headed
- Could potentially take out Harada’s Tachyon Field
- Super Shredder gives him the strength and durability advantage
- Superior mobility
- More likely to play dirty
- Can teleport as Super Shredder
Disadvantages:
- Arrogant and can overlook important details
- Doesn’t know as many fighting styles
- His claws aren’t as deadly as a Tachyons-enhanced blade
- Can’t buff his own stats without Super Shredder
- 2003’s Shredder isn’t being included, which is debatably the most powerful
- May not receive a number of his 80s weapons
- More exposed areas in armour
- Was named after a kitchen utensil
Silver Samurai
Advantages:
- Less arrogant
- Knows more fighting styles
- Tachyons enhanced blade is better than claws
- Teleportation
- Armour protects him more
- Can buff stats in base
- Is very accustomed to fighting foes with claws and ninja fighting styles
Disadvantages:
- Isn’t as fast although somewhat comparable
- Not quite as intelligent
- More limited and predictable arsenal
- No counter to hax like anti/reverse gravity ray
- Losing mutant abilities like the Tachyon Field greatly hinders his abilities
- Armor is weaker
- Very slightly less experience
- Hotheaded
- Was never voiced by Kevin Michael Richardson
Verdicts
Grand Blazer
Have I mentioned that I really like this season of Death Battle in a prediction yet? I don’t think so. Not with all the victories I’ve been having this season. And here’s another potential addition to the streak coming up in the form of my second favorite villain of all time, the Shredder. Unlike the rest of those victories though, I’m a bit less confident in this one.
Not to say I don’t think Shredder can win this. It’s just that he’s definitely gonna have a lot harder of a time doing it compared to Venom and Zero. That’s not something that’s necessarily on Saki himself, either. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, despite the wacky name and off the wall cast of characters and monsters, actually tends to stay relatively grounded in reality in terms of what people can do. This isn’t like the place where his opponent resides from, where even street levelers can take buildings exploding on top of them and walk away with a couple bruises.
To add to that, the most powerful Shredders like Ch’rell and Tengu from 2003 are confirmed to not be coming into this match, though at the very least we’ve also knocked out Silver Samurai getting Adamantium armor from the movies. Salty over the lack of 2003 btw because guess which one of the bastards making this blog watched two seasons of that show before finally getting the announcement that Ch’rell isn’t showing up. So expect a blog of mine with notes I’ve made on him within the coming while. But for now, Shredder VS Silver Samurai.
Well, honestly at the time that I’m up writing up this sentence I don’t really have much of a clue as to who wins. I have my vague ideas, but things have seemed decently back and forth this time around. Some people have been voting Shredder, some people have been voting Silver Samurai. And I honestly have no idea where the stat comparison lies here because I haven’t been researching the parts of these two that are being included (so any incorrect and unsourced info is on the others ;ppp), so I guess I have to go with what these other guys have said, and that looks like town level DC/durability on both with Shredder taking the speeds by… an amount. So for now I just have to stick to the other things that are more available to me and I’ll make this shit up as I go. Probably gonna turn out shitpost-y if I’m being tbh. Also probably wrong, long and not very funny either, but fffffffffuck it.
Sooo let’s start this off with the thing that people seem to be using as Silver Samurai’s win button: the Tachyon Field. Yeah. It’s a good argument. Shredder’s got good armor and all, but its exact composition is never specified and we’ve never seen it take country-busting stuff so I’d say it can cut through ol’ Saki’s armor as good as anything else. And even if it couldn’t, most Shredder armours don’t even cover his whole body. Just look at him in IDW, the 80s, the 2012s. Nothing’s covering those arms or legs, easy limbs to get rid of then. And word on the street is, it’s hard to fight without those things.
But never fear! A solution is available, kind of, as with superior speeds by apparently large amounts, Shredder could always dodge around SS’s blade. And sure, he may not know exactly what it does, but the thing glows. You can’t trust glowing swords. And maybe with one swing, since it can cut through anything, Samurai will wind up hitting a wall and ruining that or something. Alternatively, Shredder could try blocking it with his claws as he tends to do more often if I recall correctly and lose those. Also seems valid.
But there’s the reverse to consider too: Shredder’s claws. And maybe swords since he has those too, I guess. After all, he isn’t the only one with limbs that aren’t completely covered in armour. Give it a little slicy-slice, another man down a limb. Hopefully the sword hand. Or not, and maybe get him distracted with having lost a leg to then cut off the sword hand. And better speeds with hopefully give us that.
Alternate option includes using some pressure point combat on the exposed areas to make him drop the sword, then just break it. After all, the weapon itself is just an ordinary blade. It’s Harada’s mutant ability that gives it the cut through anything properties, so picking it up and bending it until it snaps oughta be a not too difficult to do job.
But there’s still more to the match than that that I may as well cover. Let’s see here…
They’re both used to each other’s fighting styles, through fights with their resident rivals like Leonardo and Wolverine, though I’d say Shredder may be the one more used to it. After all, while both have been trained since they were children, Shredder’s the only one who’s learned the way of their opponent’s weapon himself, since as far as I know, Harada never ripped out Wolverine’s claws and duct taped them onto his own hands for a weapon. Plus, technically speaking, Grate Man here’s got more media to use to contend with Leo than Harada has fighting Logan. Probably helps that Shredder is a main antagonist while Silver Samurai seems to be off to the side a bit.
The good news for Harada though is that he probably won’t need to worry about stealth tricks. Because despite being a ninja, Oroku Saki doesn’t really use a “stick to the shadows” tactic, whether he’s winning or not. It’s just the standard way that they fight and that’s it, why ever he does that. Shadows tend to be cool and good and useful to his trades.
The bad news for Mr. Silver though is that ninja weapons on the other hand are very much used. Kunai and shurikens give him some more range, thermite grenades should throw Harada off a little, and smoke bombs for some disappearing magic. And hey, not a ninja fan? That’s alright. I respect that. So throw in some classic wacky Turtles stuff that probably won’t actually be thrown in because most of them were one-off items and you get some anti-gravity rays for nice hax or a retromutagen gun thaaaaaat I’ll go into a bit more detail with later.
No disrespect to ya boi the Silver Samurai though, assuming he is ya boi. He has some cool stuff himself, like also kunai and shurikens for better range than just swords, and also holograms like Shredder, and then a teleportation belt which would actually be pretty useful. And then you can throw some special moves in there, like the Kaminari, Honoo and Koori to increase his stats. Also pretty useful. But he’s not the only one with some special moves going on. Granted, Shredder doesn’t… normally. And here’s where we bring in a special something that most like to refer to as Super Shredder.
Bigger! Stronger! Faster! Tougher! When the scale needs tipping, this is probably a good way to do it. Because along with that, you’ve got some abilities like Shredder’s own teleportation, flying, fire, electricity, ice, extra claws and maybe most importantly, de-mutation abilities.
That’s something that’s been thrown around our chat a bit though. We don’t know the exact way the de-mutation and retromutagen things work. It could be that it counteracts the effects of the mutagen to turn someone normal, which means that it wouldn’t work too well on Silver Samurai since he was never hit with mutagen, but if it’s meant to simply rewrite DNA back to its normal state, that’s an easy GG, because the Tachyon Field is basically all that’s giving Harada the win. Without that, he’s still strong and really good with a sword and all, but he’s just some stupid normie otherwise. And normies can’t cut metal peeps. But that’s still all technically speculation and whether you wanna give a benefit of a doubt or not because the exact way retromutagen works is unknown, and even then there’s no guarantee it works the same way as the de-mutation things Super Shredder has on himself.
But honestly, even without that benefit of a doubt, Shredder seems to have more going for himself than Silver Samurai does. I could see him losing if they got rid of Super Shredder, most of his weapons other than claws while keeping some important stuff like the teleportation belt on Harada, but I have my doubts that’s happening. It’s a closer fight than a lot of what we get, but even the closest of fights have winners and losers. And unfortunately for the Silver Samurai, I think he’s going to learn why they call Oroku Saki the Shredder.
Malcolm Belmont
Shredder vs Silver Samurai - the fight we never knew we wanted but the fight we need. In all seriousness this is an extremely interesting fight that this is an extremely close fight - not as close as the previous fight or Green Arrow vs Hawkeye but still very close. When i researching Silver Samurai i had a difficult time coming up with an overall winner since these two are very close but as a stopped and locked at both Silver Samurai and the Shredder’s abilities - i am going to have to give it to the Silver Samurai.
First let’s talk stats - oh goodie:
In terms of strength (physical strength not slicing) - Silver Samurai’s best feat is that he can lift Wolverine as well flying with a punch. Wolverine for those who don’t know weighs 300lbs so it’s pretty impressive that he was able to send Wolverine back. Shredder’s best feat is that he can easily toss and throw each member of the turtles like rag dolls. Each member of the TMNT Weighs about 180 pounds (this is both shown in the TMNT DB and the Mirage Comics). Shredder’s feats of lifting and throwing the TMNT is pretty impressive however, there’s no evidence to suggest he can lift all four turtles with no hassle. Sure he can lift one turtle at a time. In comparison - the lifting and punching Wolverine mean is a little more impressive than Shredder’s TMNT Feat so i would say in terms of strength that Silver Samurai wins this category.
In terms of speed - for Silver Samurai’s best speed feats i am going to talk about two. First of all the time when Wolverine/Beast both got blitzed by the Silver Samurai. Let’s talk about Beast first - Beast’s speed thanks to calcers has been described as High Hypersonic thanks to this calc (scroll down to see it.thanks OBD). The question - does Silver Samurai scale to Beasts speed - absolutely and i can prove it. Silver Samurai during an X-Men was easily able to sneak up on beast and blitz him before he even had time to react (it’s in the speed feats section). . He’s even fought Wolverine who is also a High Hypersonic character due to fighting Beast on even grounds and Wolverine got blitzed by SS. So Silver Samurai’s Speed is High Hypersonic+. What about Shredder - well, Shredder’s best speed feat is when he moved so quickly he appeared to teleport behind Leonardo from over 100 feet away during a flash of lightning. Considering that Shredder is much faster than Leonardo who is easily able to dodge lighting i would put Shredder at around Massively Hypersonic. So who wins well - High Hypersonic+ is Mach 50-100 while Massively Hypersonic is Mach 100-1000. So yeah overall i am giving the Speed category to Shredder though - they are not that different in terms of speed and certainly not a ballroom blitz.
In terms of durability - i am definitely giving this one to to Silver Samurai. Silver Samurai has tanked blows from the likes of Luke Cage who defeated Venom using physical force which makes him at least Small Town Level as well as Spider-Man who is also Small Town Level - Town Level (calc). One of his most significant feats come from the fact that not only did he survived an explosion that destroyed the entire dockyard (and it’s not like he escaped - he was right in the middle of that explosion.(durability feats) but he has also tanked Storm’s lighting which has been explicitly stated to be Town Level+ during Storm’s fight with Black Panther and that’s not even counting how many stabbings from both swords and psychic swords he has endured. Shredder’s best durability is surviving falls from hundreds of buildings and fighting building sized mutants though he is Small Town Level through scaling to the turtles and Casey Jones. Overall i have to give durability to Silver Samurai but you could make a good argument of either side.
So in terms of stats it's Shredder’s 1 to Silver Samurai’s 2 but what about another extremely important factor - weaponry.
In terms of weaponry as well as other equipment i would say that Shredder definitely has the advantage even with the teleportation ring. In terms of weapons and equipment Silver Samurai has a very “standard” equipment list. Silver Samurai has his armor which is purposefully made to be lightweight and allow for movement. His main weapon with is the Muramasa Blade which has a few drawbacks but gives him better stats and is nearly unbreakable. His ranged weapons such as his Shurikens and Kunai. He only really has two weapons that are unconventional - his Hologram Projector which allows him to disguise himself and his Teleportation Ring - while Teleportation Ring may seem to be pretty powerful - he only really uses it as a means in combat. He never uses in combat preferring to use a Murasama Blade or Katana. Compare that to the Shredder who not only has his iconic claws but also katanas,smoke bombs,laser guns, anti-gravity devices,thermite grenade.Shurikens,bo-staff,kunai as well as having armor that is superior to the Silver Samurai. In terms of weaponry and equipment - the Shredder more than outclasses Silver Samurai due to weapons such as smoke bombs,laser guns and grenades gives him better long ranged attacks as well as having much more unconventional weaponry such as the gravity devices.
So it's 2 to Shredder and 2 for Silver Samurai. Now let’s talk about Shredder and Silver Samurai’s trump cards.
Let’s talk about Shredder and SS’s trump cards - Tachyon Field and Super Shredder respectively. Shredder’s trump card is of course Super Shredder which i assume DEATH BATTLE will allow him to access. It basically turns Shredder into a mutant with increased strength,speed,durability a healing factor and bone claws. Being able to easily take on the likes of the Splinter and dominate the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Super Shredder is a force to be reckoned with. On the other hand you have Tachyon Field which the Silver Samurai’s Mutant Ability that allows him to cut any type of metal as long as it’s not Adamantium. You might think that Super Shredder is an overall better and while it is extremely powerful - SS is not invulnerable as he was killed by Leonardo plus there’s the factor that the Tachyon Field can cut pretty much anything - Super Shredder is not immune to swords as shown with his fight against Leonardo so Silver Samurai can definitely cut Super Shredder and decapitate him.
So it’s 2 for Shredder and 3 for Silver Samurai
Overall i think this fight is going to come down is if its normal Shredder vs Silver Samurai then Silver Samurai - despite having the weaker weaponry and being slower he more then makes up for it in strength, durability and his tachyon field allowing him to easily cut through Shredder’s armor and deliver the fatal blow. Even if this fight comes down to Super Shredder vs Silver Samurai i definitely think that Silver Samurai can win this due to his experience in fighting skilled swordsmen such as the time he fought the Black Samurai's,durability and his mutant power being more than enough to take out Super Shredder for good though it’s definitely going to be a long and hard fought battle for the Silver Samurai.
While this fight is an extremely close one - i am giving it to the Silver Samurai. Looks like Silver Samurai was just a cut above The Shredder.
ThorGundersen1058
OMG this is so exciting, I have wanted this match FOREVER. Not only is it amazingly close but one of the most Thematic matches i know of. Both Shredder and Silver Samurai are samurai-ninja warriors in modern times, who became evil due to not being seen as a part of their own family and having a huge rivalry with one of the MC’s over a girl that turned out horribly. Both are now infamous Crime Lords who have fought Robots, Aliens, Monsters and ofcourse Mutants. I even made a thumbnail for this awhile back.
Now for predictions this is all but easy, Shredder is physically Town level through scaling to Dogpound (who tanked the point blank explosion powerful enough to vaporize NYC’s entire sewer system and generated an explosion with a mushroom cloud which needs 14 kilotons of force) Tiger Claw (who cut through the hide of a Kraang worm that can cause large earthquakes throughout NYC) and Master Splinter who is above every single mutant in the show. Silver Samurai is also Town Level through scaling to Spider-Man as he has endured hits from him and hit him hard enough to put him into a daze. Speed Wise Shredder has moved in tandem with lightning regularly blitzed the turtles who consistently dodge and move in tandem with it as well, this makes Shredder a little over Mach 200. Silver Samurai can’t actually scale to Spider-Man in speed as he was only able to hit him through surprise or traps, Harada does scale to Wolverine, Wolverine scales to Deadpool, and Deadpool can move at Mach 176. So Shredder is slightly faster and both are on par in strength and durability, but here is a kicker, everything I said about Shredder thus far is 2012 series Shredder, the fact that it is a composite gives Shredder important advantages like a genius level intellect and a more varied arsenal. It may seem like I didn’t do a very good job convincing one side wins, but honestly when it is this close there is no easy answer, overall for reasons of greater speed, intellect and arsenal, in one of both the closest and most thematic matches in DB history, Shredder is gonna make Samurai Sushi.
VampyreNVRmore
On September 4th/6th, will the Shredder be able to dine on a fresh bowl of samurai soup?
Yes he will, and it’ll be served by Chefs Wiz and Boomstick.
All jokes aside, I really do believe Shredder will win this evenly close Death Battle. Some of you will ask why, so I’ll provide my reasonings.
For one thing, they’re pretty even in terms of Strength and Durability. Both of them has fought heavy hitters, with Shredder taking down giant mutants such as Leatherhead and Slash as well as Triceraton soldiers while Silver Samurai took on Wolverine, Spider-Man, and other Marvel superheroes. Each of them took pretty nasty blows in their lives. Shredder survived falls ranging from hundreds to thousands of feet and being crushed in a trash compactor while Silver Samurai took hits from Luke Cage, Spider-Man, and Wolverine as well as tanking electrocutions numerous times. Both of them has the strength to cut through each other’s armor. Therefore, it’s a toss up to see who has the edge in those categories.
However, Shredder receives the advantage remaining categories: Speed and Weaponry. Oroku Saki has proven to be faster than lightning, something that Silver Samurai keeps getting hit with. As for the Marvel character himself, his best speed is keeping up with Wolverine and being faster than him. However, this puts the samurai at hypersonic, a speed level that’s slower than being faster than lightning. Despite being able to blitz Wolverine, Silver Samurai himself will be blitzed by Shredder and won’t be able to land too many hits on his opponent needed for a win.
When it comes to the weapons category, Shredder has a lot more variety than Silver Samurai. Both of them have the standard set of katanas, kunais, shurikens, and armor stronger than steel. However, that’s when the similarities end. Harada may have his hidden blade but can easily be countered by Saki’s claws, which has the capabilities of slicing through steel and opponents with town-level durability. To put it simple, Shredder’s claws will slice Silver Samurai’s tanto into bite size pieces. Harada’s holograms will be pointless since Shredder has his own hologram projector, meaning both weapons will cancel each other’s out. Harada’s only weapon of choice left is his Teleportation Ring. The ability to teleport is useful in a fight to the death, but it can only work for so long in this fight. Thanks to scaling, Shredder has sub-relativistic reaction speed. Therefore, the advantage of teleportation will be very short-lived.
These are all the weapons Silver Samurai have, but Shredder has more toys to use that gives him the advantage. While he has regular shurikens in his arsenal just like his opponent, Saki also employs explosive shurikens. More deadly than its counterpart, these weapons will give Shredder the edge in long range fighting. Other weapons used by this TMNT villain are his variety of grenades, specifically his thermite and smoke grenades. While they aren’t normally used against other people, thermite grenades are still destructive weapons used by the U.S. military against enemy weapons, bunkers, and vehicles. Meanwhile, smoke grenades are used to help ninja disappear from areas without a trace and confuse their opponents. These grenades will serve as a deadly combination against the Silver Samurai. Another weapon that Shredder possesses is a bo staff. While it doesn’t seem much of a weapon, the staff is considered one of the best weapons used to counter a samurai’s sword. Guess what kind of opponent Saki is fighting? A samurai. A Silver Samurai. Other weapons that Shredder uses includes laser guns, alien firearms capable of piercing metals and machines. However, Leonardo’s katanas has been shown to deflect them. If used right, these weapons can be another asset in long range fighting.
Now we get to the big ones. The first of which is Shredder’s Reverse Gravity Ray. Contrary to its name, the functions of the weapon is tricky to explain. Shredder has a remote that is connected to a machine that can control gravity at a city-wide scale. With it, he has two options: Increase or reverse gravity. Shredder can increase gravity to the point where people can’t even move and items like lamp posts and trash cans are instantly crushed by the effects. People who wear anti-gravity boots are safe, and of course, Shredder owns a pair. You wonder why I gave such an explanation, right? The reason is because this can prove disastrous for the Silver Samurai. For one thing, this weapon renders Harada immobile. Because he can’t move, the Marvel character has no way of attacking or defending himself. The other thing is that the increased gravity will cause Silver Samurai’s armor to crush his body. Shredder can also use the remote to decrease gravity (or in the TMNT case, reverse gravity) to the point where New York skyscrapers are uprooted from their placements! The average skyscraper weighs 222,500 tons, and New York City has some pretty tall ones. Of course, Shredder’s boots will keep him unaffected. This would also affect Silver Samurai as he would be floating in the air, making him an easy target to pick off.
The final one is Shredder’s Retromutagen Ray Generator, a weapon made to reverse mutation. I will be honest. I don’t know how Death Battle will handle the comparison and distinction between mutation in the TMNT universe and the Marvel universe as well as the mutants themselves. Even though the process of mutation appear to be different, it has been shown that Marvel mutants can lose their powers. If Death Battle judge the mutants of both franchises to be the same, or at least really, really, similar, then the Retromutagen Ray Generator will be the end for Silver Samurai as it’ll take away his mutant powers. As a result, his Muramasa Blade won’t be powered by his Tachyon Field to cut through Shredder’s armor.
Now that those categories are done, let’s get to their powers and how they can be useful in their fight. For Silver Samurai, his mutant power is creating particles known as Tachyons but mostly uses it to make his sword strong enough to cut through almost everything other than adamantium and a few other materials. While it does look good on paper, this power won’t help against the Shredder. The reasons why is because of the speed advantage that Saki has mentioned earlier. Being able to move and react faster, Shredder will be able dodge any good strikes made by the Silver Samurai and can maneuver around him with ease.
As for the Shredder, he has his “Super Shredder” form. Considering that Death Battle has confirmed to only using “human” Oroku Saki, then the “Super Shredder” transformation should be added. Nearly every human Oroku Saki transformed into the Super Shredder. With the transformation came numerous abilities, especially thanks to the TMNT video games. His Fire Stream will be able to counter Silver Samurai’s Hyouga Ken. His Fireballs will be able to counter SS’s Touki “Koori” while cancelling out SS’s Homura Ken. Shredder’s lightning bolt attacks and variety of electric moves can contend with Silver Samurai’s Raimei Ken and Touki “Kaminari”, which will probably cause both attacks to cancel each other out. While Harada does have his Touki “Honoo”, Super Shredder’s teleportation, ability to hover, and cryokinesis should be enough to counter it. Even after all that, Saki’s strength, speed, and durability does increase in his mutation and is given the ability to grow bone claws from his body. Of course, Super Shredder does has some sort of healing factor despite it being small. If his bone claws gets cut off or removed, he can regrow more which allows him to shoot sharp projectiles. Plus at the end of the 2007 TMNT (which somewhat takes place in the same continuity as the 90s TMNT movies), it was implied that Shredder survived the collapse of the docks in Secret of the Ooze and would’ve fought the Turtles again if not for the Bays’ reboot.
In the end, Shredder wins due to his superior speed, more variety in weaponry, and his “Super Shredder” form giving him a variety of new powers while increasing his strength, durability, and his already superior speed. Looks like the Silver Samurai will be shredded to pieces.
ramonzer0
So I just want to get this out of the way: Balrog vs. TJ was amazing. Like, fuck. Best episode of the season IMO. (Mayweather/McGregor was better tho *obviouskappaisobvious*)
Also, this ep has a pretty cool match-up… which I can’t quite understand just because I don’t know much of TMNT outside of the 2003 cartoon (best incarnation, fight me) or Silver Samurai specifically. So you’ll not hear much from me here, and if you want a more in-depth look, all those mofos above me have done a much better job at studying this fight. If you still want to see my (very possibly wrong) verdict, well…
From what I understand, Shredder and Silver Samurai should both be relatively even with most stats and even experience, given the general nature of their enemies (ewww mutants). As discussed, Harada’s Tachyon field should be able to go through Saki’s armor with no major issues as it doesn’t necessarily compare to Adamantium - Silver Samurai’s cut through all but the hardest metal in the Marvel universe, so for the benefit of the doubt I’d say he can given we don’t know exactly what makes up Shredder’s gear.
That said, Shredder does have the superior arsenal, including the possible ability to strip Silver Samurai of his mutant powers; I say “possible” since you’d need to break down exactly how TMNT and Marvel mutants are different and similar in certain respects, so there’s also the possibility that it does nothing as well. Plus, Super Shredder gives him the opportunity to dominate Silver Samurai in the stats area if he didn’t beforehand.
Not that I’m ruling Silver Samurai out of this fight - I think he does have the capabilities to put Shredder down, but he’d need to deal with his opponent’s larger and better array of weapons and tricks before he himself gets dealt with. As of now, I’d give this fight to the Shredder.
