(Djangor)
(Joshski)
(DekHead)
(KirbyKid)
(Phantom Falcon)
Hellboy, the hellfire-born paranormal investigator of the B.P.R.D.
And Nero, the son of Vergil and young devil hunter of Devil May Cry
Born from the unity between human and demon, these two have struggled between their demonic heritage but still persevere to fight on the side of humanity. And they’re plenty armed (Literally) and fired up (Also literally) to face down the legions of hell that threaten the world day after day.
But today, only one is going to walk out from the flames while the other is thrown into the abyss once more, both with the will to live and neither willing to surrender. Which one of these demon-armed devil hunters would take it in this hellish battle to the death?
Background
Hellboy
On December 23rd, 1944, the sorcerer Rasputin would attempt a ritual at summoning the Ogdru Jahad, in a hired attempt made by the Nazi’s to assure themselves greater powers in their fight in WWII. While not known to the Nazi’s as the project yielded no results in their location, miles away in East Bromwich, England, a red child with a large red gauntlet for a right hand would appear in a ball of fire and be taken in by the lead investigator of the group, Professor Trevor Bruttenholm (Aka Broom) who would promptly name the child Hellboy.
Hellboy lived a relatively normal childhood under the watchful eye of the Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense (BPRD), essentially a Men in Black but for all things spiritual and paranormal. While initially being kept a secret to the world, Hellboy would eventually be granted honorary human status by the United Nations and soon work for the BPRD. Hellboy would become a key component in the organization's fight against all paranormal threats, and would even act as a mediator for some of them. Here he would meet a pyrokinetic user by the name of Elizabeth Sherman, a fish-man by the name of Abe Sapien, and several others along the way.
As Hellboy would grow, new challenges would surface and make Hellboy question his destiny. He would eventually find out that his right hand is The Right Hand of Doom, an ancient holy artifact formally attached to The Great Spirit Anum, with Hellboy being destined to bring about the end of the world. Anum’s right hand was meant to awaken and control the Ogdru Jahad, a giant and malicious dragon that was formed by Anum and several of God’s Great Spirits, as well as the Ogdru Jahad’s 369 children referred to as Ogdru Hem, and would release them from their prison and command hell’s army to bring about the Apocalypse.
Hellboy would eventually quit the BPRD after some clashing of ideals and go on a journey of self discovery to try and figure out just exactly who he is. After spending several years lost at sea eventually finding his way back to England, Hellboy would learn that his human mother Sarah Hughes was a long lost bastard relative of King Arthur. Being royalty in both Hell to the lord of witches Azzael and on Earth to King Arthur’s descendant, Hellboy would find himself questioning his fate, but ultimately choose his own way in opposition to those that had his life figured out for themselves. This actually worked for some time, but the ending of the Apocalypse always had a Plan B, with the Ogdru Jahad finding its way back on Earth in several vessels like the blood queen Nimue or the sorcerer Rasputin. Hellboy would be there to give humanity just a little bit more time by fighting for them, while also ultimately sacrificing himself in the process.
While Ragnarok was always meant to come, Hellboy’s sacrifice would give life back to the planet, giving it new life once again. Hellboy has proven time and time again that he will always protect those he cares about, as well as the greater good, and has just the killer right hook to do it with.
Nero
“Who brought the marshmallows? 'Cause I'm bringing the fire."
In the city of Fortuna, there existed an organization known as the Order of the Sword. This organization worshiped the legendary Dark Knight Sparda, the demon that rebelled against the Demon King Mundus and sealed the door between the human world and the demon world, as a god, as he acted as the feudal lord of the city long ago. The Order acted as a sort of cult, worshipping the knight and capturing other demons, as well as various Devil Arms, weapons manifested from defeated demons. Among this cult was a young boy known only as Nero.
Not much was initially known about Nero’s past. What we do know is that Nero grew up with no biological family, with only his now-girlfriend Kyrie and her brother Credo watching over him. Both Nero & Credo acted as warriors for the Order, with the latter acting as lieutenant to the cult leader Sanctus. One day, during what was known as the Festival of the Blade(man, this Order must really like their sword-related terms), the Order was attacked by the legendary Demon Hunter and son of Sparda, Dante. Dante caused panic among the Order very quickly by seemingly assassinating Sanctus, but just as he was about to seemingly attack Kyrie after she went in to save her brother, Nero stepped in to save her, battling Dante at least until reinforcements arrived. It’s revealed during this fight that Nero’s been hiding a great secret: He himself is part demon.
At some point prior to Dante’s attack on the Order, Nero & Kyrie had been attacked by demons. Nero managed to defeat most of them, but couldn’t prevent his left arm from being injured and Kyrie being knocked out. Kyrie managed to recover, but Nero’s arm permanently transformed into a demonic arm, called the Devil Bringer. According to Nero, that day, he heard a voice echo: “Power....Give me more power!” Fearing how his foster family would react, but still wanting to do whatever it takes to protect them, Nero trained his new arm in secret, only using it when by himself.
Dante managed to escape from Nero, but the boy was ordered by Credo to chase after him and bring him in(or maybe kill him, whatever works). Although Nero does as he’s told, while on his demon-slaying adventure, he slowly realizes that the Order is corrupt, eventually confirmed after an attempt on his life by the Chief Alchemist, Agnus. Fortunately for Nero, his demonic side saved his life, awakening his Devil Trigger and repairing the nearby damaged Yamato, a katana owned by Dante’s fallen brother, Vergil. After reuniting with Credo, it turns out he’s also involved in the Order’s corrupt ways. As they fight, he and eventually Kyrie, who was very soon after taken hostage, learn about Nero’s secret. But as he goes to save Kyrie, he learns of the Order’s plan to awaken a deity known as the Savior in order to rule the world. But despite holding his own against Sanctus, who not only survived his assassination but was also piloting the incomplete power of the Savior, Nero was unsuccessful in saving Kyrie, as she and Nero were absorbed into the deity, but not before he watched Credo, who turned against the Order, get mortally wounded right in front of him.
Eventually, Nero was rescued by Dante, who now had Yamato under his possession. But he couldn’t leave from inside the Savior without saving Kyrie, and so he sets off to do that, eventually succeeding, killing Sanctus for good, and ending the rule of the Order once and for all.....though not without literally crushing the Savior’s face first.
With the Order disbanded, Nero took on the Devil hunting business and worked as a mobile hunter for Dante’s shop, Devil May Cry, alongside a new technician and partner named Nico. But one day, tragedy struck, as a mysterious hooded man showed up to Nero’s home and judo threw the boy so hard, it ripped his Devil Bringer arm off. 2 months later, Nero was confronted by a mysterious man named V, who brought him onboard a special mission to take down a powerful new demon named Urizen, as he had already hired Dante to do it, but he was having a bit of trouble. V reveals that Urizen is responsible for taking Nero’s arm, using it to gain a great deal of power. Unfortunately, Nero was no match for the demon, and so had to retreat before watching Dante do just as badly. Dante’s loss allowed Urizen to grow a giant demonic tree in the city of Redgrave known as the Qliphoth, hoping to eventually grow a Qliphoth fruit that will give him extraordinary power.
One month later, Nero would return to hunt demons, hoping to get back at Urizen and find Dante, now with the help of Nico and not only her ability to make new robotic arms for Nero, but also her indestructible van, like holy crap, that thing goes through so much and there’s not a scratch on it. Anyway, his adventure eventually leads him back to Urizen, but despite doing better than before, he’s still no match, only surviving after being saved by the no longer missing, and much more powerful, Dante. After Dante forces Urizen to flee, he, Nero, and V set out to find the demon, and take him down once and for all. Though V does reveal a big fact about Urizen: He’s no ordinary demon ruler, but rather he’s actually Dante’s long lost fallen brother, Vergil. After Dante defeats Urizen, Nero and V arrive at the scene, and the two demon hunters allow V to finish the job, not knowing one little side note about his relationship with the demon. Although it appears that V finishes off Urizen, he actually reverted himself and the demon back into their original self: Vergil. And after Vergil escapes the scene, Dante drops the biggest twist Nero’s ever felt in his life: Vergil is Nero’s father.
Despite Dante’s warning not to kill his own father, Nero interferes with the brothers’ battle, and confronts Vergil, hoping to stop the twins from killing each other, the emotion allowing him to grow back a human arm in place of his missing one, and accessing his full Devil Trigger form. He succeeds after defeating Vergil, but there was still the matter of the Qliphoth. The twins decide to head to the demon world to cut the tree down, and then seal the portal, trapping them there. Now, Nero hunts down any remaining demons, no Legendary Dark Knight or Alpha & Omega to stand in his way.
Equipment
Hellboy
Right Hand of Doom
Hellboy’s signature oversized red gauntlet. Originally belonging to one of God’s Great Spirits by the name of Anum, it was grafted onto Hellboy at birth by his father Azzael, a lord of Hell who ruled over all witches, after said father had also cut his original arm off. This hand’s size and weight allows Hellboy to shatter stone with total ease, and knock out any unfortunate souls who happen to get in his way. It is also completely immune to pain and virtually indestructible, making it an effective shield for bullets, paralyzing venom, and any other attacks that would otherwise hurt Hellboy’s normal flesh.
The Samaritan
Handed to him by hero The Torch of Liberty, Hellboy’s main weapon of choice is this large hand cannon. While Hellboy has used a variety of pistols in the comics, this pistol is a constant among all the Hellboy continuities, both in design and power. Being a 22 MM four-round revolver, this gun has an easy time blasting through monsters in the same way it can blast thrown stone pillars or walls.
The shells for this weapon are made by Hellboy himself, one of which is made of holy water, clover leaves, silver shavings and white oak, made specifically for killing all manner of unholy demons and creatures. Hellboy on occasion has been known to also use silver bullets. This weapon has been attributed by Hellboy to act as a cannon, especially due to its ability to absolutely obliterate its target.
In the Hellboy: The Science of Evil video game (Written by both Mike Mignola and Guillermo Del Toro), Hellboy has several different rounds available to shoot from his gun.
Big Baby
This giant 6 round explosive shotgun can fire off two rounds at a time, resulting in a large explosion wherever it’s fired. Being as large as it is, this weapon is big enough to be held in Hellboy’s right hand. Hellboy used this weapon to quickly take down a kaiju sized forest God in the second Hellboy film.
Excalibur
Throughout Hellboy’s run, Hellboy always had a hidden knack wielding all types of swords or weapons. Be it random swords, axes or daggers. This is because Hellboy’s mother, Sarah Hughes, is the long lost relative to King Arthur (Yes, that King Arthur) meaning that yes, Hellboy is indeed the rightful ruler of Great Britain, king among men.
Having always felt the need to wield a weapon and ultimately choosing a pistol to be his one handed weapon of choice, Hellboy would find out the secrets of his family history through Morgan Le Fe, and take this magic blade in his fight against Nimue and her hellish forces.
Being a holy weapon, this magical sword is capable of cutting demonic foes with ease, like Nimue’s champion. In the Hellboy 2019 reboot, this sword can be charged with Hellboy’s flames for added power. It also gives Hellboy access to an army of Hell and an undead army from King Arthur’s rule.
Crown of the Apocalypse
Whenever Hellboy activates his Devil Heart, upon his brow appears a crown of fire, meant to grant the user immense fire power and wisdom. This crown is enough to make any lower demon rival the power of Anung Un Rama.
A lowly demon by the name of Ualac took the crown from Hellboy and used its powers to create a blade of fire, and other canon’s of Hellboy show him capable of doing the same thing. This also gives Hellboy an aura of fire.
Vasilisa’s Gifts
Vasilisa’s Comb: A comb granted to Hellboy by Vasilia the Beautiful. Hellboy used this comb against Koshchei the Deathless, which grew an entire forest when used. Doing so pierces and traps its target.
In the Injustice 2 Video Game, Hellboy is given the comb as an available special in the game, and with it he is able to summon roots and trees from the ground to tangle and snare foes.
Vasilisa’s Handkerchief: A blue rag that is also granted to Hellboy by Vasilisa in his fight against Koshchei. Using this item brings forth a massive wave of water, and floods the entire base of a mountain which drown’s Koschei and drags him further down the roots of the world tree.
In the Injustice 2 video game, Hellboy is given this rag, and allows him to bring forth a small wave of water to stumble foes at a distance.
Grenades & Explosives
Vulcan Explosives
Hellboy has had a knack for carrying various types of explosives when fighting the supernatural, because while holy artifacts are always a must when fighting the various demons and cryptids on the field, good old fashioned incendiary gun powder does the job just as well.
Vulcan 40: A hand grenade with enough force to take out a pile of elephants.
Vulcan 50: a hand grenade said to be strong enough to take out the top of a mountain.
Concussion Grenade
A standard stun grenade. Hellboy used this to explode the insides of a frog creature with ease.
Specter-Bomb
A grenade meant specifically to vaporize ectoplasmic beings or apparitions. Hellboy used this to take out a circus tent full of spirits. While not super effective against living beings, it still gives off a considerably large explosion.
Brimstone Grenade
Granted to Hellboy in the Injustice 2 video game, Hellboy heaves a grenade full of fire and brimstone at his opponent.
Charms and Talismans
With Hellboy’s over 50 years of experience with the paranormal, Hellboy has collected a slew of ancient and magical artifacts from around the world.
Whittier Coin
A coin meant to ward off evil spirits. This coin prevents possession by demonic beings. In the Injustice 2 video game, when active this coin can lessen damage made on Hellboy.
Agrippa’s Charm
A coin meant to ward off evil and demonic presences. Using this charm against Gruagarch, a shapeshifting fairy demon, this charm shrunk the demon down when Hellboy carried it in his stone hand and proceeded to bash Gruagarch over the head with it, chasing him off. In the Injustice 2 video game, Hellboy receives a damage buff to all of his moves.
Molohmi’s Bell
A bell handed to Hellboy by the African Witch Doctor Mohlomi. In the comics, this bell is meant to ward off evil spirits, similar to other artifacts under Hellboy’s possession. In the Injustice 2 video game, this bell can be activated prior to falling in battle to resurrect Hellboy.
Broom’s Rosary
A rosary given to Hellboy from his late father Professor Broom. This rosary, other than giving Hellboy the ability to hurt demonic creatures, can give him resistance to attacks, as seen in the Injustice 2 video game.
Nails
Hellboy has access to several types of nails, from iron to cursed. In Injustice 2, his cursed nails can cause damage to an opponent over time. He also has a cursed nail that can open a portal to hell, preventing an opponent from being able to walk on it.
Nero
Red Queen
A turbo-charged demon cleaver ,which is modeled after the German Großes Messer (en. GreatSword). A version of the Order's anti-demon weapon customized just for Nero. Equipped with a combustion engine, using the added power and propulsion to his sword swings. Revving the hilt like a motorcycle activates the Exceed system, which coats the blade in flames to set foes ablaze. This and few other modifications make Red Queen comparable to Devil Arms in power (despite it not being one) and nearly impossible for anyone but Nero to wield.
Blue Rose
A heavily modified version of the Smith & Wesson Model 500, crafted by Nero himself. Capable of shooting two bullets with one pull of the trigger. The differences are:
6-shot cylinder as opposed to the original 5-shot cylinder.
Extra barrel underneath, allowing for a double shot.
Got targeting sights and porting on each barrel to reduce recoil and muzzle flip.
There's also a split-lag between first and second bullets. Thanks to that, the first bullet breaks the enemy's armor while the second pierce through the damaged surface and inflicts actual damage.
Blue Rose also can shoot one bullet at a time.
Its shots can also be charged with demonic energy for a higher damage input.
This six-chamber revolver fires two bullets at a time from upper and lower barrels. Good for long-range attacks to keep foes in check and combo strings going. It also allows Nero to fire special multi-hit bullets with the powerful Color Up skill.
Color Up allows Nero to fire 3 rounds of bullet shots at once when his Bullet Gauge is full. He also has a High Shot that allows him to stun an enemy with a multi shot hit.
Devil Bringer
Nero’s former right arm that was torn off by Vergil. The arm possesses superhuman strength, which it can also manifest through a larger, spectral arm. It is also capable of absorbing items of power, such as the Yamato or Evil Legacy, and manifesting their power. It was also extremely durable, capable of no-selling hits from Dante which were giving Nero himself some trouble.
This arm can do feats of supernatural strength, which Nero often uses to his advantage when fighting demons. Nero regularly uses it to move and throw objects much larger than him, a technique that is known as Buster. The arm can also be used to pull objects towards Nero (Snatch), or him towards them instead (Hell Bound).
Buster has several different varieties shown here
The Devil Bringer is able to absorb certain Key Items and use their power to grant itself new abilities. These items are obtained either by finding them within special magical pillars, or by taking them from specific bosses. Those Key Items include:
Evil Legacy - Grants Snatch and Hell Bound
Rusalka Corpse - Grants Auto-Search
Sephirothic Fruit - Grants ability to destroy Strange Trees
Aegis Shield - Grants Hold
Devil Breakers
After his original Devil Bringer arm was cut off and stolen by World’s Best Dad Vergil during the events of Devil May Cry 5, Nero relied instead on special mechanical arms known as Devil Breakers. Created by Nico Goldstein, the Devil Breakers each come with a variety of uses and possess specialized abilities for combat. Every arm comes with a standard grappling wire for snatching enemies from afar or bringing Nero in up close, along with a self-destruct mechanism when the arm is heavily damaged known as a Break Away, allowing Nero to switch out his arms, damage nearby enemies, break out of restraints, and activate powerful all out attacks specific to said Breakers. Although Nero has regrown his right arm at the end of DMC5, he is able to convert said arm into energy to use the Devil Breakers at any time he needs.
Overture: The first Devil Breaker built by Nico and Nero’s most iconic cybernetic arm. Made using a part from a Blitz demon, this arm is fairly straightforward as it’s basic attack “Battery” fires an electric burst in the shape of a giant hand while it’s Break Age move “Exploder”...well turns the arm into a bomb that Nero can stick to an enemy to deal heavy damage. This bomb can be manually detonated.
Gerbera: This Devil Breaker launches shockwaves for its basic attack “Jocky” that can be used either as a “palm blast” similar to Overture’s basic attack or be used to propel him upwards. It also has two Break Age’s with its ground-based variant, “Stamen Ray”, firing a continuous laser beam dealing devastating damage and giving them “A little taste of the good shit” while its mid-air Break Age “Petal Ray” fires out multiple ricocheting lasers.
Punch Line: A rocket-propelled Devil Breaker that can be launched off and fly around to constantly chase down and hit enemies independently of Nero, or used as a hoverboard to let Nero fly around the battlefield and strike enemies at high speeds all he likes. And with its Break Age, he can release the arm to uppercut enemies into the air like a rocket-powered Shoryuken. It’s a rocket punch, how cool is that?
Helter Skelter:The helix of sharp metal gives this Devil Breaker incredible penetrating power. This Breaker's Break Age launches Nero in any direction at a high speed in a tornado-like fashion. This weapon is made specifically to break an opponent's guard.
Tomboy: A Devil Breaker that charges not only Blue Rose but Red Queen as well, giving Nero’s blade full Exceed charge and allowing a charged Blue Rose shot to fire at extra power. The boost in power comes with a little loss in control, as Nero has to brace to use his weapons.
Buster Arm: A Devil Breaker meant to replicate Nero’s original Devil Bringer abilities when he had lost his arm to his father Vergil. While this results in a powerhouse breaker capable of throwing enemies with devastating force, this brute strength comes at the price of reduced durability, making it prone to breakage.
Rawhide: Using demonic metals, this Devil Breaker uncurls into a metal whip, leaving little room to reach Nero when he shields himself with this lengthy and destructive wire. This wire has the widest attack range of any Breaker, while also enabling Nero to grab enemies from a distance. This weapon's Break Age unleashes a flurry of wire swipes and grabs the opponent in the process.
Ragtime: Created from the Elder Knight Geryon, this Devil Breaker is one of the most unique, possessing few offensive capabilities in exchange for the potent ability to create bubbles of time that slow down anything caught in their area of effect, including Nero himself. These bubbles last a short period of time, and only one can be created at a time for Nero to use. However, should he use its Break Age, it will slow down all enemies in the area around him even further with no detriment to Nero, leaving just about anything open for him to attack.
Mega Buster: This Devil Breaker is a nod to Capcom’s Blue Bomber himself, the original Mega Man. A blue arm cannon resembling the Blue Bomber’s Mega Buster, complete with the Yellow charge indicator, and tapered muzzle at the top to indicate the firing hole. With this solar powered weapon equipped, Nero takes on the jump animation of Classic Era Mega Man, and can fire some mean Yellow energy at any who stand in his way. And just like the OG Mega Man, he can charge it up, for more devastating effects. Oh yeah, did I tell you Nico loves herself some Mega Man?
Sweet Surrender: A Devil Breaker meant to… sooth Kyrie. This weapon's Break Age heal’s Nero.
Pasta Breaker: A fork breaker meant to help Nero eat pasta. Made from both Punch Line and Helter Skelter parts, this breaker fires off like a rocket punch, while spinning and piercing foes, with its Break Age being the same as the Helter Skelter.
Gerbera GP01: Has all of the same abilities as the original Gerbera, with an added bonus of excelling in mobility via shockwaves Nero can fire.
Monkey Business: A Devil Breaker made from a rack of… bananas? It has the same abilities as the Helter Skelter, while also adding banana splatter to the attacks that land with it.
Yamato
Sharper than any katana, the Yamato is stated to be able to cut through virtually anything, even the very fabric of space itself. Despite its power, Nero was unable to unleash its full potential, but he managed to awaken his own Devil Trigger. It allows him to summon and fire phantom swords, as well as a spectral demon avatar which mimics Nero's movements and attacks with Yamato. He can also use the blade in conjunction with the Red Queen for a barrage, or use the yamato to unleash a barrage of slashes.
Note: While the Yamato was taken back by Vergil in DMC V, Nero wielded the weapon himself for years, and it personally chose him as its wielder for that time. While the blade is shown being capable of cutting space while in the hands of either Vergil or Dante, it has not done so while in the hands of Nero. This may be due to Nero lacking the knowledge of this function of the blade.
Sephirothic Fruit
The Sephirothic Fruit is one of Echidna's seeds, obtained after it falls from her as she flees at the end of Mission 7 in DMC 4. After being absorbed by the Devil Bringer, it grants Nero the ability to wither away demonic trees.
Aegis Shield
Angelo Credo's shield, obtained after Nero defeats him in Mission 8. After being absorbed by the Devil Bringer it grants Nero the ability to perform Hold. Could also be used as a shield for direct defense.
Key of Cronus
A magical key intended for use with the Chrono Slicers, a time suspension device being developed by the Order's technology department. Can manipulate space and time in a limited area.
Abilities
Hellboy
Demon Physicality
As a half-human half-demon, Hellboy’s physicality is far greater than an ordinary man, granting him greater strength, reflexes, and durability all around.
This includes him being able to survive stab wounds that would otherwise mortally wound a normal human, regenerating an arm to the point of being able to successfully reattach them, and growing horns on his head to complete his demonic look.
Heat Resistance
Being born in the pits of Hell, Hellboy’s demonic background gives him the innate ability to be resistant towards all manner of flames and heat. This resistance also extends to electricity. Granted, this doesn’t make him immune, seeing as being shocked with enough electricity to light up a city could still cause him pain, but it does make him highly resistant either way.
Pyrokinesis
Hellboy can control the fiery power of Vril. His gauntlet can be charged with flames, and is hot enough to melt stone in the science of evil video game. When facing off against Rasputin near the finale of the series, Hellboy finished him off while Rasputin was possessed by the Ogrdu Jahad with a huge blast of flames.
Typically Hellboy will consume whatever area he’s in with flames, letting it burn either out of his body or from his right or left hands. He can also harness his fiery powers into his weapons for added power.
Nero
Demonic Heritage
Being the son of Vergil, Nero has inherited many of Vergil’s traits and a few of his own. His reflexes and precision make him fast enough to shoot bullets out of thin air, his physical strength great enough enough to parry and return strikes from demons the size of buildings, and most prominently, a healing factor that can allow him to quickly recover from wounds such as bullet holes, sliced up organs, and the classic chest impalement of the Sparda bloodline. Nero himself was able to heal from being partially melted by the savior, and Vergil has shown being capable of completely healing from being bisected by Dante in a split second. Most impressively, Vergil was able to regenerate from just his soul after his destruction by Dante in DMC 1, though it took several years and thus is not usable for combat.
Dante, Vergil and Nero, alongside their Hybrid physiology, have a special lineage of demonic power that is exclusive to them, which comes from the Demon Lord Sparda. Thanks to them having the same blood and soul as him.
Their initial Powers and Abilities are listed here.
Demonic Energy
Demon's physical power comes from their magic/demonic power. Here we see how Dante’s reflexes such as his agility and his speed become slower and sloppier as he grows weaker by the second when he is being stripped of his demonic power, forcing him to use his guns as they are the only ones that don't run on his demonic energy.
Demonic power is often used to boost someone's attributes, an example of this is when Gilver, using the nexus, starts making the demon world energy flood into the human world, having said energy close to him boosts his power and defense to the point Dante's attacks stopped working.
By the time of DMC5 we are told Demonic power comes from human blood, the more blood there is the more powerful the demonic power that comes out will be. This is explicitly shown when Urizen, being infected with human blood and bathing in it, grows so powerful to the point other demons consider him a Demon King despite not having eaten the fruit or being one by that point and even allowing him to defeat Dante.
Absorbing, destroying or nullifying a demon's magic basically renders them useless, in this case Chen (a genius who spent decades researching demons) developed a gel capable of nullifying magic / demonic power for the sole purpose or research, he traps demons there and they become helpless, powerless, useless as everything including their physical power comes from said form of energy.
Breakdown of how it works:
Demons use demonic energy to increase their durability and ap. Demonic energy is also called magic, or magical energy (the Japanese dmc 1 guide even calls the demon world the “magical world).
Demonic energy is also used for hax. All “magical abilities” derive from the same demonic energy pool, as shown with the fury.
Even half breeds like Dante and Vergil follow this same system, using demonic energy for ap/durability and hax.
Reduction of energy weakens the demon, reducing durability and ap. Complete reduction will potentially kill the demon.
Magic power is used by Agnus for healing and strength. Devil Trigger completely revitalizes the user and boosts all stats, via more demonic energy.
And lastly there is the savior, a large part of his power was drawn from Nero, who was being used as a battery of sorts to power the savior and when he was set free the savior lost part of his powers.
To quote Nero inside the Savior: “The structure of the Savior's body is like a labyrinth with countless demons. Maybe they are like me, and they are the driving force behind the Savior”. This is further proven true when Nero gets absorbed within it, and it's stated after that it gets weakened when he gets freed. Likewise when the devil sword sparda is used to power the savior, it is described as using magical/demonic power.
With all of this it is pretty obvious that their powers, magical and physical come from the demonic energy running through them, this power as shown can be and is used to boost their physical attributes or to perform grandiose acts of reality warping.
Devil Bringer
Setting Nero apart from his father and uncle is his demonic arm, the Devil Bringer. This unique arm is incredibly durable, able to block sword strikes barehanded, along with a variety of supernatural abilities. He can project it as energy to grab objects and foes from afar, extend its claws for slashes, absorb demonic artifacts to grant the arm new abilities, and even project the arm to sizes so massive that it could crush the face of a giant colossus. Although it was ripped off by Vergil, Nero was able to regrow it to not only regain his old powers, but also awaken its true potential in a pair of taloned wings made of demonic energy, which have the added bonus of flight, razor sharp slashes, and dual attacks.
Sword Techniques
Roulette Spin: Nero extends his air time by slashing his blade sky high multiple times to gain more altitude
High-Roller: Cleaves an enemy skyward with Nero pouncing up to join them in the air for more combos
Streak: A rushing attack that launches Nero forward to unleash a power sword strike
Split: A violent descending slash that slams through enemies right through the middle
Calibur: Nero strikes forward from the air with a heavy blow
Shuffle: After back stepping to avoid an enemy attack, Nero will rush forward with a fast and powerful sword counter
Payline: A swift mid-air strike meant to exploit enemy weaknesses and daze them.
Hard Way: Nero lunges at an enemy and exploits their weak points.
Double Down: A propellant ignites on the blade of the Red Queen by the Exceed system powers which propels this weapon doward
Exceed: By revving up his sword like a car engine, Nero can charge his blade with flames to increase the potency of its attacks. This blade can be charged up to 3 times.
MAX-Act: Right after a sword strike, Nero can charge this blade out instantly to max out its Exceed gauge.
Devil Bringer Techniques
Buster: After grabbing an enemy with his devil bringer, Nero can do extended damage by throwing them. This move is made more devastating when in Devil Trigger form.
Snatch: Nero sends forth his Devil Bringer and grasps distant enemies
Hell Bound: This allows Nero to move long distances by grabbing enemies
Hold: By using his own demonic arms, Nero can use objects or other enemies as shields or be tossed aside.
Bringer Knuckle: A ferocious follow up attack with Nero’s demonic arm. Both of Nero’s demonic arms can be used at once for this attack.
Bringer Claw: Slashes from Nero’s demonic arms that are used in unison with Nero’s sword strikes
Summoned Swords: By using demonic power to summon blades, Nero can have these blades home in on an opponent.
Flap Top: By using Nero’s demonic arms, Nero can extend his air time adding another jump
Showdown: An incredibly powerful series of strikes with the Red Queen and Nero’s demonic arms
Maximum Bet: Demonic arms and the Red Queen combine to blow through enemies like a powerful wind. The resulting attack releases two giant sword slashes that tear through mobs of enemies.
Other Techniques
Table Hopper: An effective evasive maneuver that leaves an after-image trail and effectively sets up counters
Rainbow: Performs a savage dropkick from a running position
Enemy Step: Nero can hop off other foes by kicking off their head mid-fight
Air Hike: By concentrating demonic power at his feat, Nero can double jump to reach higher into the air
Kick Jump: Nero kicks off the wall to enable an added jump
Recovery Provocation: Nero’s most legendary technique. When his back is against the wall, Nero can pull out a pack of gum and chew it, even going the extra mile to put the trash in his pocket instead of littering...how awe-inspiring. (Jokes aside this does actually help Nero restore health)
Forms
Hellboy
Devil Heart
Hellboy’s true form is activated by waking his Devil Heart, taking up the mantle of Anung Un Rama or the one “upon whose brow rests a crest of flame.” Several times Hellboy would access the rage of this power, leading to an increase to his physical strength and durability, all while covering himself in an aura of flames.
With the awakening of his Devil Heart comes the ability to access Hellmode, with Hellboy entering a blinding rage referred to as Hellfury, overwhelming his opponents with his strength, or Hellfire, which lets him access the fiery abilities of his Devil Heart to set foes ablaze.
Although denied by Hellboy for most of his life, after being sent to hell by the Blood Queen Nimue and facing down the remnants of his past, Hellboy embraced this power to fight off the legions within. In this state, Hellboy grows in strength to an incredible extent, able to grow himself to the size of a colossus, summon hellfire powerful and wide enough to ignite an entire mountain range or ignite his fist, and even call down lightning from the sky to channel into his Right Hand of Doom. All of which makes him a force more than capable of bringing down hell itself.
Nero
Devil Trigger
BANG BANG BANG
After learning of his heritage to Vergil, Nero steeled his resolve and refused to let his newly discovered family die, unlocking his Devil Trigger. This form greatly enhances all of Nero’s capabilities and then some, including his speed, strength, toughness, and healing capabilities, the latter to the point of regenerating his entire arm from a stump. He also gains a set of clawed wings for flight, enhancing his slashes, and acting as twin Devil Bringers in order to grab and attack any enemies from afar. This form was even able to defeat Vergil in his Devil Trigger, even after he had taken the power of the Qliphoth and Nero’s old arm. While it does have a time limit depending on how much demonic energy Nero has, his sheer speed and power gives him more than enough to take advantage plenty of times over.
This form has some potential multipliers, but they change each game. As for the actual benefits this form grants, Nero can use summoned energy swords, a spectral replica of what appears to be the Yamato, and he can use his devil breaker abilities in tandem with the state. Activating Devil Trigger also heals wounds and restores the user's vitality. Nero also retains his prior combos like showdown and maximum bet, which now do more damage (he uses the spectral Yamato with red queen for maximum bet). He should be able to fly in this form like his father as well.
Feats
Hellboy
Overall
An accomplished and experienced demon hunter over the course of several decades
Took out the eye of Baba Yaga
Survived being sent to hell and eventually returning
Brought about Ragnarok and the rebirth of the world
Defeated Bog Roosh, Koschei the Deathless, Demons of Thunder and Lightning, The blood queen Nimue, Satan, Rasputin the Sorcerer and The Ogdru Jahad
Power
(Don’t worry about the context)
Suplexed a wooden post into a Hecate possessed Vampire and a demon horse so hard that it exploded into a skeleton
Created an explosion whilst in his Devil Heart Form bigger than the mountains (197.5 Kilotons)
Comparable to Roger, who channeled energy powerful enough to melt the flesh of a colossus (35.87 tons of TNT)
Comparable to the Ogdru Jahad when it used the witch queen Nimue as a vessel and summons a storm that laid waste to Great Britain (9.05 Gigatons of TNT)
Comparable to the demon brothers Thunder and Lightning, who created massive storms across the world (573.61 Gigatons of TNT)
Comparable to Elizabeth Sherman who used her fire powers to destroy the underground city of Agartha which resulted in the destruction of Malaysia (17.09 Teratons of TNT)
Speed
While this lightning was mystical in nature, both demons were capable of creating massive storms, likely making it comparable to natural lightning
Assuming this weapon is meant to be a particle accelerator, which fires particles near lightspeed, this would get anywhere from 4% to 19.15% the speed of light
Durability
Had his own jetpack explode on his back while falling hundreds of feet from a plane, crashing into a tower roof without a scratch.
Survived an explosion that engulfed Castle Giurescu (0.895-12.305 tons of TNT)
Survived an explosion of an entire underground Nazi base with a bunch of UFO’s
Given that a city the size of Hamburg requires 10 terawatt hours to power annually, this would require anywhere from 23.57 kilotons of TNT assuming a day to 8.6 megatons of TNT assuming a year.
Roger also absorbed this power in its entirety, and has shown to be comparable to Hellboy
Survived being next to Liz after she had created a blast that wiped out the surface of the planet. (Here is proof that Hellboy survived) (183.24 petatons)
Nero
Overall
Constantly takes down armies of demons all by himself
Took down the Order of the Sword
Survived two fights with Dante
Regrew his severed arm after unlocking his Devil Trigger
Became the main force behind the Fortuna branch of Devil May Cry
Has beaten powerful demons such as Berial, Bael, Echidna, Goliath, Gilgamesh, Artemis and Malphas
Defeated Credo, the Savior, Sanctus,
Defeated his father Vergil
Power
Crushed the head of the Savior with a fully grown Devil Bringer (5.37 tons of TNT)
Defeated Echidna, who made a storm (6 Megatons of TNT)
Overpowers Berial with his sword. Berial can destroy wooden buildings, and an entire small town.
Defeated Bael, who made a blizzard. (193.98 tons of TNT)
Punched out Dante and defeated Vergil in combat. Also stopped them from killing each other while they were in Sin Devil Trigger.
Dante killed Argosax, who was stronger than Arius who made this crevice
Dante also killed the Nefasturris, which is stated to be a living city and made a storm
Dante was able to beat Abigail, who opened a massive portal that evaporated the clouds beneath (1.12 - 7 Gigatons of TNT)
Abigail nuked several portions of the city (385 Tons of TNT)
Vergil by this point had reached and surpassed the peak of his abilities as Urizen, whose power was able to lift the Qliphoth above the clouds, while both had cut the entire thing down
Vergil eating the fruit of the Qliphoth was also said to have empowered him to the same extent as the demon king Mundus
Mundus being defeated caused his castle to collapse and Mallet island to explode (356 Kilotons of TNT)
Mundus casually made a storm over Mallet island
Speed
Should be superior to the demon Blitz, who is as fast as lightning
Flew to the top of Qliphoth in a matter of minutes in Devil Trigger (Possibly faster)
Faster than V, who is able to easily dodge Cavaliere Angelo's lightning. Cavaliere is able to use lightning from the sky
Can dodge strikes from and tag Furies, which can move quite rapidly.
Comparable to Dante and Vergil
Both were able to destroy thousands of raindrops while time appeared to be nearly frozen around them for several seconds (Mach 17.28-1002.27)
Dante himself could dodge blasts from the monster Nefasturris, which do not explode, burn on contact, move in straight lines, and have statements of being beams of light within the guidebook (33% Lightspeed) and fly to a planet while in space. (0.25c - 18c)
Dante also dodged this laser
Dante during DMC3 could catch up to his sword falling at re-entry speed and could effortlessly avoid Lady, who could dodge Trish's lightning. Dante could also react to Nevan's lightning.
Dante could dodge Griffon's lightning attacks, one of them which was a lightning bolt zigzagging through the battleground, which Dante can dodge. Griffon’s lightning comes down from the sky.
Durability
Shrugged off impalement through the chest (As per family tradition)
Survived Vergil ripping his arm off (Albeit being put into a coma and having to go to the hospital afterwards)
Gets flung into a pillar by Urizen and hits the ground. He shakily rises to his feet moments later. Urizen shattered Rebellion with a punch, and knocked Dante out of his Devil Trigger.
Gets impaled by the Yamato, immediately yanks it out and stabs Vergil with it.
Durability should automatically scale due to how demonic energy works inverse
Comparable to Dante and Vergil at EOS
Vergil was able to completely heal from being cut horizontally in half by Dante near instantly
Dante has survived the following:
Tanked an assault of meteors (199.19 tons - 8.23 kilotons of TNT)
Survives the demonic gauntlets Ifrit from trying to kill Dante
These gloves use hellfire which is said to be far more destructive than regular fire, as they're able to harm creatures that are "impervious to volcanic fire" Frost-Description-DMC
Weaknesses
Hellboy
Hellboy is an incredibly accomplished and experienced hunter, but also far from invincible, able to be overwhelmed by his own anger and rush into situations without thinking, which frequently gets him into trouble. Although he can come back from the dead and heal from wounds most men would die from, he can still be put down, notably when Nimue ripped out his heart and was able to send him to hell. He’s also a lousy shot by his own admission, preferring not to use modern day guns and technology over some old school revolvers or simple close combat weaponry like blades or his own fist. And while said fist is immune to pain and nigh unbreakable, his own body is still vulnerable and can be harmed by various weapons, poisons, and venoms all the same.
Nero
Despite all the power he has, Nero's learned time and time again that he isn’t unbeatable. While his stubborn and hot-headed nature has worked to his benefit in the past, it's also gotten him into trouble just as many times as it has helped him, especially since he can also sometimes be quite cocky and arrogant (hey it runs in the family). Not to mention for as good as his healing might be it still has its limits as he is still capable of being knocked out or killed. Lastly, while Nero’s Devil Breakers pack a hell of a punch their actual durability is very poor and they can be easily destroyed with a strong hit, guess it's a good thing Nero carries a crap ton of them with him.
Summary
Hellboy
“I wish I could do something about this. But I can't. But I can promise you two things. One: I'll always look this good. Two: I'll never give up on you... ever.”
Advantages:
Far stronger and tougher
Far more experienced
More skilled
Right Hand of Doom > Nero’s Devil Breakers (in both power and durability)
Greater attack range in Devil Heart
Has some of the dopest non Marvel/DC Comic movies around...well mostly
A cool as fuck art style
Disadvantages:
Slower
Not as versatile
Inferior regeneration capabilities
No real answer to Ragtime
Hellboy 2019
Nero
Advantages:
Faster
More versatile
Better regeneration
Ragtime allows him to widen the speed gap further and get plenty more hits in from there
Has taken on opponents far larger than himself in the past
Disadvantages:
Much weaker
Far less experienced
Not as skilled
Devil Breakers are far easier to break than the RHoD
Devil Heart’s size and AOE would greatly lessen Nero’s ability to avoid a fatal blow
Has somehow never made it into a fighting game (please just give us Capcom vs Capcom already)
Before We Start With the Verdicts
Let’s address the “devil” in the room…
**(Feel free to skip this portion of the blog if you want to head straight to the verdicts, the section below goes into incredible detail on why we here on the team decided against using universal Devil May Cry Feats)**
So, for seasoned universal DMC backers, or for those who have heard of universal DMC feats prior to this blog, you might be surprised at the lack of universal feats in the actual blog itself. When going into feat after feat with the DMC series, along came the question of “Are these feats legitimate?” So, one KirbyKid took on the task of helping fellow researcher Cyber in figuring out the context surrounding several of DMC’s biggest feats. With it came a lot of confusion, a lot of uno reverse switches, and many headaches (As researching can be VERY difficult when discussing the cosmic relations of a series’ lore)
So this section is for all the individual’s who want to understand why these feats weren’t listed in the blog, what this generally means for this fight, and hopefully this will open some eyes on the subject of “Is Devil May Cry Universal?”
Short answer, no. Long answer goes as follows -
We will be addressing the following cosmic feats:
Pluto cutting the universe
Merging feats (Mundus/Argosax) and Separation (Sparda)
Mundus making space
Void Mundus
BeastHeads
Nightmare destroying the demon world
Savior making a realm
4D Demon World
Immeasurable speed
Extra: Urizen shaking the world, Beowulf making a small supernova, etc
We will be using canon guides alongside all other canon material to address these. Canon detailed here. The two main guides used will be artbooks Precious Tears and Devil May Cry: 3142 Graphic Arts, alongside the japanese game guide for DMC 1 and English Game Guides for DMC 1-3.
Without further wait:
1. Pluto Cutting the Universe
A certain passage noted down by a prophet in Devil May Cry 1 tells us this:
“Pluto shall come on the promised date and separate heaven and earth. One with black wings of treachery shall come and stand in Pluto’s way."
This in conjunction with the DMC 3 manga is used to argue a prior demon king/god named Pluto split the realms, and was then killed by Mundus.
The issue is the manga statement already debunks this being a feat.
"When heaven and earth were rent asunder, a demon god with black horns emerged from the darkness. He hammered a giant spike into the earth so that heaven and earth would never again be split apart. To prevent the spike from removing itself, he chained the undying one to it, and cast an eternal seal.” (Heaven in this context is the demon world, and earth potentially refers to the whole human realm).
Per the statement, The realms were already split before Pluto showed up. Furthermore, the manga reveals how the realms came to be, and Pluto wasn't involved.
"The world was born from darkness. Unending darkness. A crucible of chaos. But even to that primordial existence there came a ray of light. The universe was eventually split in two. The darkness became the realm of demons... and the light became the domain of mortals."
The manga goes into how it was a natural ray of light that split the original dark world into two. There’s really no reason why Pluto would be this ray of light, especially if he’s destined to eventually separate them back again… just cause? He also places a spike for the realms not to be separated, which contradicts what DMC 1 tells us about his intentions. It’s more like he’s just a destined figure to do so. How he would do so isn’t really clear, and as will be discussed down below would most likely be haxed related.
Other issue is the dialogue differences in the manga description and game description:
Manga: “When heaven and earth were rent asunder, a demon god with black horns emerged from the darkness. He hammered a giant spike into the earth so that heaven and earth would never again be split apart. To prevent the spike from removing itself, he chained the undying one to it, and cast an eternal seal.”
Game: “Pluto shall come on the promised date and separate heaven and earth. One with black wings of treachery shall come and stand in Pluto’s way."
The manga Pluto wants to keep the worlds together. Game Pluto wants them separate. There is narrative contradiction that further complicates the legitimacy of the separation in the manga being creditable to Pluto in the first place. It is quite likely the entity shown in the Manga simply isn't Pluto, given it is never stated to be him.
2. Merging & Separating Realms (Mundus/Argosax/Sparda)
Here you can find the main arguments for realm merging in DMC entailing complete universal fusion.
Needless to say, once again the very text used shoots the argument in the foot:
Break through the thin veil. So for those who are unaware, there is a dimensional barrier that divides both the demon world and human world.
This is consistent even with statements in DMC 5 about the same barrier. Messing with the barrier can cause the demon world to “bleed” into the human world naturally, which is supported by the DMC 2 novel. In it Dante goes to an alternate universe where Mundus succeeded with his plan to remove the barrier, and the demon world begins terraforming the human world.
So while we are told by the dmc 3 manga Mundus wanted the realms to be one, and DMC 4 uses the word “fusion” for what happened, it was a chain reaction, not an actual feat for Mundus. The same applied for the novel Mundus (as explained in his section). The official translation for the dmc 3 manga also notes nothing about realm fusion, only the notion to rule them as one. For argument’s sake, let's say fusion did happen. We have no method of fusion then or exact timeframe. As detailed in below for Argosax (and parts in the Void Mundus section), messing with the veil/barrier causes the demon world to bleed in naturally. So there is no direct evidence of Mundus literally fusing realms as an AP feat.
Sparda
As for Sparda separating the realms, he does it via a seal, which is explicitly hax and not AP. The realms don't auto merge when his seal is weakened. One might argue the barrier brought above is the seal, but that is contradicted by the veil existing prior to Sparda defeating Mundus as we are told here. Given this, it’s likely he isn't separating anything physically, just further hax reinforcement to prevent demons from crossing over to the human world. There is also the fact that all of Sparda’s seals are hax based. Sparda used his own blood, along with the blood of a human priestess (Lady's ancestor), in conjunction with his sword and a mystical amulet. He poured his demonic energy into his beloved sword to close the door between realms, the Temen-ni-gru. He also used the Yamato to close the Hell Gates, and the functionality of Yamato is spatial manipulation and the power to separate demons from humanity. We are also told he used the Yamato to split the worlds, which is consistent with a blade fragment creating gaps between the dimensional barrier between the realms. He also helped seal Argosax in the demon world, and sealed Mundus away as well. The philosopher's stone in the first game is also used to unseal the demon world. None of these seals are AP feats.
Argosax
As for the Infamous Argosax argument, this is more a feat for the demon world and not directly Argosax. We are directly told it's the demon world that will consume the human world.
Arius saying "The world is already warped. Everything that belongs to the devils will eventually revert to its original form. Even you will betray your upbringing and turn on the humans” does not inherently prove the entire universe was being warped (In general dmc suffers from people generalizing “world” to mean Universe every time it is said despite books/manga/games/anime having different writers. An example of differentiation would be dmc 2 referring to the human world as the earth.) The only areas shown affected are the island the game takes place in and the sky overhead. We are directly told it is only affecting the island:
The appearance of Phantom in dmc 2 is used to argue the entire timeline is being affected by argosax. The effects are shown to only affect the island and are stated to be the work of the demon world, not Argosax. Argosax’s involvement is further put into question by one of the artbooks, which states it was Arius who warped the island and opened a door to the demon world. The same artbook further reiterates it is only the island that is in danger. The only argument in support for Argosax being connected to what is occurring is that it’s death seemingly undoes the warping effects on the island. The only thing that changes is the color of the sky (shown in Lucia's ending). If we are to believe that Argosax was involved, it would need to have first messed with the dimensional barrier between the barriers, which is a chain reaction as the realms merge naturally then. Argosax dying would stop the dimensional temparing, thus ceasing the effect. It is not an actual AP feat.
To prove the above point, this is Sacrilege. Sacrilege creates a distortion that is used to bring the demon world closer to the human world. You find 3 in Dante’s mission in Arius’ office building and 2 in Lucia’s mission. This indicates Arius has these items all along.
Arius is stated to have been who warped space on the island, not Argosax. This would be consistent with it being stated demons used a tear in space to cross over to the island. It is also stated in the english dmc 2 guide that Dante was called to seal a rift between both worlds that had been forced open. This is all consistent with Aruis having tech/spells that can cause dimensional bfr. In short, Argosax did not merge any realms, It was Arius who opened a rift, in which the demon world began bleeding into the human world.
Going back to this scan, and the four lights “moving the demon world”: the lights saying the movement of the demon world is intensifying isn't referring to the entire demon world literally moving, but rather it's referring to Dante being able to leave the distorted space in mission 16. We are told the activation of the last one would let Dante access the demon world, and the game even says the four lights will “open a door”. (stated again here)
Consistently stated they open a door/make a portal which is strangely consistent with the Sacrilege does as well. Any actual movement of the demon world would be partial bleeding in of it through the dimensional barrier being messed with, not the entirety of it.
Narratively it also wouldn't make sense for Argosax to have merged the realms as that would mean he would need to undo Sparda’s seal, which we know from DMC $ is still intact years after DMC 2. So no, Argosax did not merge the realms.
The Eclipse
Lastly, Argosax did not move the moon. It was a solar eclipse that was occurring prior. Arius tries to obtain the Arcana in order to release Argosax, take his power, and become a god. The Arcana are four holy relics used to seal Argosax, and by uniting them at the solar eclipse, a gate to the Demon World will open. This is confirmed in game:
Lucia: "We have until the Sun is completely eclipsed. But...how are you going to enter the building? The entrance is..."
Lucia: "What...? The ritual was incomplete... but the door to the Demon World is..."
Lucia: "Once you enter the Demon World... you may never be able to return...I'll go... I'm expendable..."
The following argument is used to justify the moving of the moon as a feat:
“The game starts in the afternoon for the first mission but everything after that takes place at night, with various shots of the moon being to the right of Arius's tower(and this is viewable during mission 2 in-game) and it's the only position we know of the moon until mission 9 for Lucia (the scene is only shown in her route) were we see this showing the moon no longer behind Arius's tower but the interesting part is coming up. In mission 10 for Lucia and 14 for Dante we see the Sun and moon suddenly in this position despite the Sun not being visible literally minutes prior due to it being night and now a sudden eclipse is happening, the sky is no longer red, and the entire island is warped drastically.”
Fully addressed here, as the response is too long for this section.
3. Mundus making a space/Dying affecting the Demon world
There’s not a single guide or character comment that says the place this final fight takes place in is created by Mundus. In fact, it’s guides and character comments that say just the opposite.
The below image offers the two different translations of this guide page.
The realm that Dante and Mundus are in is described as either “a realm beyond human comprehension” or “A mirror world beyond human knowledge”
So, big mindsplosion reveal. This description… is referring to the demon world. Not some world that mundus created, but the demon realm itself. These descriptions of “beyond human comprehension” actually fall in line with other descriptions of the demon world.
But then you might go thinking “Well how do we know this is the demon realm and not another realm?” The thing about the demon realm, which is supported in the above image, is that the demon realm is made up of a bunch of circles (Dimensions) of hell, and Mundus likely just took Dante to one of these circles. For instance, Berial is the king of one of these realms. Furthermore the japanese game guide says dante was transported to this realm:
Alt trans:
After meeting Mundus here, you will be transported to the Demon Emperor's Space Heaven to fight the first form of Mundus.
After mundus explodes in this world, Dante just.. Kinda appears back in the tower (which isn't explained) but later Mundus rips through a hole all fucked up from exploding and says “The gate has been opened!” and if he came from the same dimension he just fought Dante in then that means the gate he just opened from is the demon world, as was his goal the entire game. It is argued the sigils he uses here are what he uses exclusively for dimensional travel, but they are most likely to bypass the barrier between the worlds, meeting the “favorable conditions” he needs to cross over:
This is consistent with this statement saying that when Dante sealed Mundus, he also sealed a breach between both realms.
One argument for creation is that stars appear after the portal opens behind Mundus and are not immediately present. Looking at the scene, there’s really nothing to indicate this. More stars appear as the effect expands across the room, but going off of the interpretation that it's a portal, this is because those stars were obscured by the edge of the portal (there's a glow effect just within the outer rim of it, and the only blank spaces are areas covered by that effect), and became visible as it got wider.
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Now onto the kamiya tweets portion of this argument. The real big issue from Kamiya saying “Universe” is that multiple vs debaters are literally putting suggestive phrasing and words in his own mouth. For those not in the know, these are typically referred to as “leading questions,” where a person will ask something in such a way that they will get their desired answer regardless of if it is or not.
This actually ends up backfiring, as Kamiya not only has a reputation for being a massive twitter troll (only on occasion of course) but he doesn’t say “He created a universe” or, “Mundus created this universe” he just says “Universe.”
Which to be fair, if we go with the interpretation that this is the demon world, then it is a universe. However, Mundus didn’t create a final universe battleground for his fight with Dante, it was a universe that already existed, which is why Kamiya says “Universe” because.. It is. This is especially aggravating because each time he’s asked this very same question in an attempt to goad him to say “he creates this universe” he just sends the tweeter back to the original post.
Kamiya also stated what occurred was a transition from the temple to space:
“By the way… temple goes into space…”
Kamiya also hasn’t had any input on the canonicity of events in the series since he left. Itsuno would be the person who could give clarification, but hasn’t on this specific topic.
Kamiya did not answer the question, he only said the word "universe" which is essentially a non - answer to the question and borderlines on being a non - sequitur, meaning that he confirmed nothing. If he actually wanted to say that Mundus was universal he would have simply answered "yes" or another word which would have made connective sense, like he said Jubileus without both of the eyes of the world was universal, which means you could scale Bayonetta to universe level if you wanted I guess?
Kamiya will often give one-worded answers to these type questions without further explanation. Here, he doesn't give a definitive yes or no to whether or not Mundus could destroy the human world.
Kamiya has also gone on record years ago saying that asking him about dmc is pointless, as it is no longer his property:
Some people might bring up Kamiya helping with the Hype trailer for DMC 5, however that trailer is purely promotional. Kamiya hasn’t had an authoritative position for dmc in nearly two decades.
Lastly, Kamiya’s words on twitter can be very messy. He utterly despises VS centric questions.
Mundus dying
Mundus dying only affected his castle, not the entire demon world.
Whether it be guides or kamiya, only the castle is ever specified to collapse. And the final nail in the Mundus uni coffin, an official dmc 1 guide puts the entirety of Dante’s final missions under “Underworld,” meaning that technically speaking Dante is in the underworld (demon world) during the entire last portion of the game. Even when he and Trish fly the plane out of the island the castle is inside of, which really is the only thing that’s like, collapsing and ends up blowing up at the end.
It also doesn't make any narrative sense for a complete collapse to happen. Other demon kings have died, and the demon world still remains. The prior demon king/god Mundus killed Argosax, possibly Abigail, and nothing implies that the demon world would have collapsed If Urizen had died either.
And no, Mundus was never stated to have made the mirror world.
Note 1: DMC 5 confirms mundus got his power from eating the same fruit that urizen ate.
The fruit is shown to be able to make illusionary dimensions:
This is an illusionary space created by the Demon Tree based on the memories of the Demon King (Vergil).
It is a space created by the demon tree based on the memories of the demon king (Vergil), and is the only place where the mind is at ease.
(DMC V ARTBOOK)
So while not confirmed, if mundus did actually make the space it could be an illusion world like the fruit example above.
Note 2: Narrative Consistency
Universal levels of power don't make much narrative sense in DMC 1 when you look at the limitations shown for Dante in the game.
Dante in his base state (after the sword of sparda empowerment) is strong enough to fight and beat Mundus the first time around. The same Dante is then stated to be killed if he doesn't escape the collapsing demon castle. Likewise, he is confirmed to die if he gets caught up in the collapsing island collapse, which Dante also implies to be true.
You could argue the reason he would die to the island collapse is because he was no longer amped by the demon world (Which the demon world is stated to do by both characters like Gilver and guides). The issue is that he was still going to die from the castle collapse in the demon world, and this would make it impossible to scale him on earth to any feat he does in the demon world (which also means Nero wouldn't scale to the cosmic arguments). The demon world amps may have been retconned later on, but regardless it is clear it is not consistent for Dante to be universal in DMC 1.
Note 3: How did Dante get back?
In no piece of media, whether it be guide books, the game, novels, etc is it ever explained how Dante got back from the space fight to the demon temple. Mundus just starts falling apart, and then the scene goes white, second later Dante is back in the temple right next to Trish. This is usually argued to mean the whole universe disappeared and that Dante then appeared there.
Issue right off the bat is assuming the universe disappeared. It was only confirmed Mundus did:
So how did Dante get out then? We don't know. The Sword of Sparda may have been responsible but that sadly is an assumption. It's just an unknown that has no answer. What we do know is there is no evidence for assuming universe erasure.
4. Void Mundus
Void Mundus is argued as having all the power of the demon world, as its nexus and heart.
This ignores plenty of context from the novels. For one, there was still demonic energy present.
"This place was originally the human world. It's been corrupted beyond recognition now. A weak current of magic runs through it. But it's strong enough for us to resume our native forms" (Novel 2, p. 125).
Second, having all demonic energy from the demon world doesn't make you automatically universal, its argued the energy from the demon world made the human world, which is contradicted by it being stated it was the light from the division of the original universe that became the human world, nor do we have any timeframe for this creation at all.
The usage of “nexus” and “heart'' are vague and never really elaborated on. Nexus can be the focal point of connection. Being the heart doesn't mean much, given Mundus’ death doesn't erase the world as some claim. We know this because it was confirmed Dante and Beryl got bfr’d back to their own world.
On to “nexus”
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/nexus
https://sentence.yourdictionary.com/nexus
In the second novel, the demon world and human world aren't fully merged, rather the human world has been terraformed by the demon world bleeding in.
Dante killing mundus means nothing ap wise, as a void has no mass, and we don't actually objectively know if mundus himself is the nexus (which we have established above as unquantifiable)
Griffon mentions that they are at the “Kings keep” and then later mentions that it is the nexus of the underworld's mystical energy.
Tldr, we don't know how much energy void mundus actually has, whether or not he actually is the nexus, his death does nothing to the realm, and his explosion isn't a feat for Dante because Void Mundus is literally intangible and has no mass.
5. BeastHeads
There are 3 arguments for the beastheads:
Beastheads shake the “world”
Beastheads embodying time
Beastheads being stated to be able to reshape the world
The beastheads “shaking” is noted to only affect a building, and world here obviously doesn't mean the universe given it mentions aspects of the planet such as the ocean. Even if it did shake the planet (it didn't as people would have noticed across the globe if that happened), that would be only a small country feat without further context.
The beastheads “reshaping the world” is explicitly reality warping hax that never is actually done or elaborated further on.
Beastheads do not fully embody time, as their destruction does not affect time notably in any way, shape or form.
6. Nightmare Destroying the Demon World
Nightmare is stated in the dmc 5 manga to be able to destroy the demon world.
However a game guide with lore given from the perspective of Dante says the time frame would be indefinite.
It also specifies it is the stability of the underworld nightmare would affect. Given Nightmare's own movement speed is quite slow, and its destructive capacity is quite lacking, making this statement unquantifiable.
Giving nightmare the benefit of the doubt that the cave was somehow super durable, his next best feat is also lacking in aoe. He causes an explosion and slightly craters the ground with a punch. He lacks both the speed and aoe to make this statement have a possible quantification.
Nightmare also doesn't make a realm with a star. It's a pocket dimension inside him, and the “star” in the background doesn't even look like a star or natural light source.
It is also stated to be bfr to an “evil dimension”.
As for the demon world being infinite in size, refer to here.
7. Savior Making a Realm
For this feat, it’s theorized that the power of the savior is described as making a “nightmarish recreation” of the game's level Ferris Hills.
“Nightmarish” itself gets paired up with the idea of it being a “nightmare” or a “vision,” but in this context, the area that’s specifically stated to be recreated is Ferris Hill’s. This is a location in the game where Nero fights demon king Berial, resulting in the destruction of the portion they fight in. So it likely gave them the floor again to fight, with each time Nero rolls the dice up what’s referred to as “stairway” to heaven or hell which gives it the impression that it’s just taking him to different dimensional pockets, rather than it being attributed to the saviors own power, as that’s not explicitly stated to be created by the savior.
So pretty much the game just makes it seem like dimensional travel (with parallel universes existing in dmc that would make sense) and the demons themselves seem to be goading Nero to beat them in order to progress.
And if it did recreate anything then the Ferris Hills location itself was recreated rather than an entire universe, otherwise it would’ve made mention of it. It doesn’t even say “the entire world was recreated” or “the universe was recreated” it just says Ferris Hills.
It doesn't confirm that they're literally inside the Savior. It doesn't confirm that the Savior created them. It doesn't confirm if they're real or illusory / mental. And it doesn't confirm anything else, either. Some Heavens are at night, some Heavens are centered in a room. We just don't have enough information.
It should be also noted this statement (recreation) comes from a Prima guide, which is not the most reliable for feats or lore.
8. 4D Demon World
Demonic world energy being “4d” isn't a thing. Stopping time/messing with space time is not inherently 4d, and the blog assumes Void Mundus’ death destroyed the parallel universe, which didn't happen. Dante got reverse bfr’d back to his original universe in a manner similar to the beastheads.
To quote the blog above:
“Since as shown on the scans, even a smaller scale of demonic energy can affect the fabric of space and time and eating demonic essence can also allow you to be able to manipulate time, they are also capable of breaking through space and time.”
Issues:
As stated by DMC4 Tutorial Files:
- Chrono Slicer -
A time suspension device being researched by The Order of the Swords's technology department
The device is incomplete, and so will only remain active for a short time
While in possession of the Key of Kronus, press B/O near a Chrono Slicer to slow the flow of time
- Key of Cronus -
"Crafted concentrated magical energies. Can manipulate the very fabric of space and time."
"Possesses a dense magical power. Needed to manipulate the very fabric of space and time."
As you can see, the description is clear saying that the device manipulates time, while the Key is needed to activate said device.
And then, we almost never saw demons capable of warping space and time in the games or novels, only very few ones (and most of them being God Tiers) actually showed that ability, feel free to search for examples, but you won't find many.
And that, as you can already understand, contradicts the interpretation that simple demonic energy on its own can just perform a hax like that when most of them never showed such ability, which only leaves one actual option, the energy isn't doing everything by itself, the device also has part of it. If you are not very familiar with the series, and are asking if DMC tech can really help such a feat, the answer is absolutely yes, DMC has tech based portals to the Demon World and even artificial demons.
In a similar way, DMC4 also has Tech based Hell Gates, that allow travelling between human and demon world, that are powered up by Devil Arms, the ones usually used by Dante in the series -
To forward their plans, Agnus, the Order's Chief Alchemist, created three lesser Hell Gates, copies of the real one. He used the Devil Arms Lucifer, Gilgamesh, and Pandora to power the Gates and allow demons into the human world, which he used in his experiments.
Devil Arms don't have the power to travel between the realms (despite demons having to an extent, when the barriers are opened, however the DAs don't have all of the demon's powers since they don't have, for example, passive fear hax, as humans like Enzo can have a whole shop of them without being affected).
Summarizing, Demonic Energy being used on a device that can warp space and time can't be considered 4D just by that, as the device plays part of it just like every tech in Fortuna
Now, for the most important part, pay close attention to the statements, on what the device and the key can do:
- While in possession of the Key of Kronus, press B/O near a Chrono Slicer to slow the flow of time
- Crafted of concentrated magical energies. Can manipulate the very fabric of space and time
- Needed to manipulate the very fabric of space and time
The "Warp Space and Time" never existed
We have in two of the statements the word Manipulate, which has a different, less precise meaning, as "manipulating" can be about many things on how it manipulates said concepts and to what end, however, we are lucky, because the Slicer's description is clear and precise, further explaining what this is all about: slow the flow of time, which is your regular Time Slow Hax. A device+energy capable of slowing time is rather common in fiction and having Time hax like that doesn't give someone 4D power.
Linked here is the issues with infinite size for the demon world (also linked in nightmare section)
Note: It is also controversial whether time is even “4d”: Physicists continue work to abolish time as the fourth dimension of space.
9. MFTL/Infinite/Immeasurable Speed
DMC is argued at MFTL from the space flight Dante and Mundus do in DMC 1.The issue is we don’t know where they were initially in space, only that they went to the Earth of that space.
Point of contention: Notice how they fly upward? Basically it's possible that the planet is just located roughly just above the view of the camera, off-screen.
The scene hard cuts while the camera still not perfectly angled up so it could still be like:
Red being Dante's trajectory(obviously not to scale). Notice the clouds already entering right at the top of the screen. Interpretation would indeed be that the planet is just like right on top, especially given Mundus’ flight trajectory and such. To be fair the planet isn’t exactly visible, so we went with earth to moon distance, and half the minimum distance between planets to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Most other arguments for light speed and above DMC sadly don’t hold much weight. Beowulf uses generic light attacks which have no evidence being light speed, artemis’ light curves and explodes with force, and even the dmc 2 feat might have issues. As for the plasma particle beam, Plasma being a particle shouldn't matter either since people seem to have a twisted idea of what a particle beam actually is. Particle beams grab a certain number of particles and accelerate them over a vacuum using magnetism and whatever else, but it doesn't necessarily need to reach relativistic speeds. In the end, a particle beam is just a beam with particles.
Another thing about plasma is that it's beam is composed of plasma, and even when traveling at DC voltages in dielectric circuits, it's max speed is about 100 km/s.
Mundus’ particle beam is called demon beam or demon emperor beam in the jp guide:
“If you fly in a large circle (oval), you will not be hit by enemy attacks other than "Demon Beam" and "Lightning Strike". However, the aim of "Meteor Warm" is ambiguous”. Has no proof of being an actual particle beam. Even then it explodes.
The laser from dmc 3 is promising, but has no proof of burning or reflecting and isn't stated to be light or made of light.
This calc is wrong because it assumes Mundus made the space, and it would be attack speed at best. Dante gets consistently tagged by mundus’ attacks, only dodging one pike at best.
Infinite speed arguments is either characters moving in stopped time (which is resistance to time stop, not speed unless proven otherwise) and nightmare needing infinite speed to destroy the demon world (which only works if the realm is actually infinite which we have no solid proof of, and it was stated nightmare would do it in an indefinite time frame).
Immeasurable Speed is from characters tagging the fury. People argue this description of it is for speed:
The issue is it says demon power is used for jumps, which visually in game is teleportation. The japanese raw confirms this as well:
The other argument for immeasurable is Chen having no concept of space or time, which is not only disgustingly taken out of context (it was talking about the visions given by the beastheads) but is also a mistranslation as shown here.
So no, no immeasurable speed here. God tiers simply upscale from the space feat.
Miscellaneous Feats
Beowulf is stated to be able to make a “small supernova” with the move called Volcano in the english version of dmc 3. Not only is the resulting blast smaller than a room, but the japanese version says nothing about supernovas.
“Blast the ground with a burst of light energy”
Even if you want to prioritize the english version, the visuals don't match up with a supernova, and “small” supernova is extremely vague.
Urizen is stated to shake the foundations of the world, which is actually not present in the japanese version.
Shaking the foundations of something is a phrase that can refer to bringing about major change. It would be an idiom.
But for argument’s sake let's say it is meant to be taken literally. As discussed in the beast head section, shaking the planet with no context is a small country feat, as you can't assume anything higher than a magnitude of 4. You could argue “world” in this context means the universe since the french version mentions shaking the foundations of the universe. The issue is the fact the japanese version doesn't have the shaking line, there is no ‘sekai” or “uchu” being translated here, it is a line added in the international release not even mentioned in the dmc v artbook or game guide. Relying on a french translation to upscale this statement is shaky in itself, because you are admitting the english version is not the primary translation to go with, in which the japanese version flat out doesn't have this line. As such it is unusable.
The Qliphoth tree did not physically fuse both realms, this is literally contradictory to the plot of dmc v
Gilver making a nexus is environmental destruction in the context of the first book, and would take time to even terraform even a city.
We’re not going to tackle the weird demon name that means your power argument, rather will point out that mundus' name does not mean universe.
Mundus' name is outright stated to be allegorical, not literal, and it doesn't have to do with the physical universe itself. Similarly, Agni and Rudra are not literally the Hindu Gods of Fire and Wind, but simple demons with Fire and Wind powers. The names indicate something about their name, but aren't meant to be taken literally.
It is far more likely and believable that Mundus' name is Mundus because he is the Emperor of the Demon World (Vile World).
According to Kamiya himself, they chose the name Mundus because he is the Emperor of the Underworld and the name has evocative imagery:
So Mundus' name meaning "Universe '' isn't meant to be taken literally. He isn't a Universe.
Conclusion
Most if not all cosmic arguments for DMC either ignore context or were lacking context which was clarified in guides to not support them being cosmic. But let's say we are wrong about 1 or 2 arguments here, in which case cosmic dmc is simply not consistent. Every feat listed below in the verse caps at Island or lower, small country at best if you buy the world shaking arguments:
Mundus creating a storm over Mallet Island
Mundus collapsing Mallet Island
Mundus peppering Dante with Meteors
Nefasturris making the sky red and summoning storm clouds
A larger vortex of clouds in the sky when Argosax is summoned
Echidna creating a thunderstorm and causing clouds to spin rapidly
Echidna creating a rainforest over time
Abigail's Island level cloud feat
Arkham moving clouds in a vortex when opening the gate to the demon world
Phantom causing the clouds above Mallet Island to spin rapidly
The Saviour starting a storm/The savior punching/kicking
Arius making a giant crevice when possessed
All the Qliphoth feats
Etc
The verse is consistently on a level where they are not even planetary.
Cyber here. I want to let all of you reading this that we did want to give universal dmc the benefit of the doubt, heck I was pushing for it for a week. I’ve pushed for this tier for two years, quite stubborn at times, and I’m the guy who upgraded dmc to Low Multiversal on Versus Battle Wiki. There is 0 bias here. The reason none of the arguments made the cut is frankly re-examination. Nearly every argument has some hole or requires too many assumptions. What is presented in this blog is my current opinion on the verses ratings alongside others who were willing to also look at all the arguments and not just auto dismiss them.
We actually cut some arguments that were too nit picky, such as the typical portal argument for realm merging or the space in the boss fight cutscene having notable creases in the sky box, alongside a “wavy” effect in the background.
With that said, our general verdicts are below.
Thanks for reading all of this.
Verdicts
KirbyKid
This is without a doubt one of my all time favorite match-ups to date. Very rarely does a match-up juxtapose with itself the way these two do. Both have fire swords, pistols, a right hand meant to destroy the world, wear trench coats and are half human and half demon to boot. Even in the ways they are different, does this make for a good fight. Red vs Blue, one guy looks like a demon while the other looks human despite both being half of each. I really cannot sing this fight’s praises enough.
With how much this fight has going for it, there’s obviously a history of debate behind this fight and who wins. For the longest time, it was always figured that Nero would be the one on top, and I (for the most part) was on the Nero train myself. After all, he does come from a fast action hack and slash demon slayer video game and supposedly has universal feats. Well..
The more we here on the team looked at DMC’s feats, from their context to their numbers, and then contrasted them with much of Hellboy’s own feats, more often than not… It was always Hellboy who came out on top.
Mind boggling I know. But let’s address some of these feats.
Barring universal arguments for either side (as we’ve already discussed in the section above) for a while this came down to 2 big feats between Hellboy and Nero. At the very end of Hellboy’s comic book run, Elizabeth Sherman would end up being the key into Earth’s destruction, lighting the whole planet on fire with Hellboy right next to her, effortlessly taking the blast from Liz’s explosion. This feat is calced at over 183 petatons of force, making it multi-continent. And before you bring up Hellboy’s innate resistance to fire and heat, Liz’s fire itself is entirely different from traditional fire, being described as a living thing itself, and a form of energy called “Vril” (known as flamma reconditus) which is also stated to be God’s flame, the same flame used to create the Earth. Hellboy survived being lit up by this force without even flinching.
Meanwhile on Nero’s side of things, his strongest feat is scaled from Dante from Abigail’s storm feat in the anime, with it originally being a feat that supposedly “dispersed” a large area of clouds, equalling a force somewhere around 200-ish Petatons of force… The issue with the feat itself though is it relies on the Kinetic Energy of the clouds moving outwards when there’s actually nothing to suggest that's what happens. If this were the case, the clouds would have been displaced, with their mass moving outward. Instead of that, they disappear all together, giving the impression that they were actually vaporized or destroyed. This especially makes sense when considering the fact that at the time of the portal summoning, demons were destroying the surrounding area with fire and explosions. Going from this context, this number actually severely lowers the total destruction of the feat, all the way down to 1 gigaton of force. Interestingly enough, this is close in line with other DMC feats like the creation of the Qliphoth tree in DMC 5 (877 Megatons).
So now we have Hellboy at 183 petatons, and Nero at 1 Gigaton. Country if we’re being generous with “world shaking” arguments. The difference in power between both of these feats is so stark, the only way Nero could possibly keep up is if we included the infamously mentioned UNIVERSAL Devil May Cry feats, which were glossed over above. The thing is, using logic from several of those dmc feats, Hellboy also comfortably sits at Universal levels of power.
For instance, Hellboy’s uncle stated the power of his right hand would awaken and give life to an army that would batter down the barriers between Hell, Heaven and Earth. Another character also confirms this in the same Hellboy arc. Using universe merging logic, this is technically Multiversal considering it affects 3 different realms. This is essentially a Mundus argument 2.0, with Hellboy’s own power being able to rip open a portal to Hell AND the Abyss on several occasions (Both in the movies and the comics). Of course I don’t buy the argument that could be made myself, but there is another universal Hellboy argument to be made from the series with a lot more meat on its bones.
Universal… Hellboy?
Since seemingly nobody except me read B.P.R.D (a spin-off of the HB series that I highly recommend any comic fan getting into), there’s a super villain by the name of the Black Flame, who in short is an avatar of the Goddess of the Abyss, an entirely different universe. The Black Flame uses a dark version of the Vril called Shakti, and Vril is the key for a character by the name of Johann to unlock the full power of the universe. Johann is constantly reached out to by past wielders of a power suit named the Sledgehammer, which has the ability to harness Vril, and they ask him to join the “infinite.”
It gets super weird and metaphysical, but both the Black Flame and Johann join the same pool of power where they connect to “every atom of the universe.” Yes, this is a legitimate thing.
And take a look at what Johann does when he finally connects to the infinite, something that the Black Flame already accomplished before he fought both Johann and Liz in the comics.
Liz (And Johann before he joined the full force of the infinite for that matter) both fight the Black Flame, who at the time was connected to the infinite, which as supported above gives him access to every atom of the universe, yet she still survives full on assaults from him, and still comes back fighting for more. Meanwhile, later in the series, Liz gets one shot by Rasputin who had the full power of the Ogdru Jahad, and Hellboy later kills him.
Any way you look at it, the universal Johann feat is exceedingly iron clad and legitimate. Much more so than anything on DMC’s side. The only issue is whether you believe Hellboy scales to it or not, and given the fact that the Ogdru Jahad’s power was being used through the black flame, with the Black Flame also stating his powers come from Liz and Johann, this makes HB’s scaling options look actually legitimately viable. The irony of this turning from uni Nero to uni Hellboy will never not amuse me..
Now do I believe this match comes down to universal arguments? Not even a little bit, especially since we didn’t include this feat in the main portion of the blog. However, as researchers we’ve looked at all of these feats as objectively as we could, and if there is a case of legitimacy to these cases it’s ok to accept them, and the reverse also remains true.
If you want to look more in depth on universal Hellboy stuff, I have a document prepared detailing more of it here.
Now what about other conditions to this fight?
Nero of course has the speed advantage in this fight, especially when considering his ability to significantly slow down time. However, the gap in speed is not so overwhelming to the point that if Hellboy landed so much as one hit he wouldn’t be able to catch up. Any hit Nero lands HB can reasonably recover from, and increasing his size dramatically to the size of a mountain and blasting a mountain range area in hell fire will be more than enough to overwhelm the young devil hunter.
Hellboy is also older than Nero by several decades. Assuming Nero is in his mid or early 20’s, Hellboy has over 5 decades worth of experience fighting the paranormal, including demons, with some of his opponents having similar, right and left handed metal gauntlets that Nero sports. Sure they may not shoot lasers or slow time, but the other general abilities Nero’s metal arms have which consist of stretching long distances to snare foes is something Hellboy is used to, and considering the gap in physical strength, Nero will want to keep his distance, despite that kind of approach not being his forte.
And with Nero’s devil breakers being much less durable than Hellboy’s Right Hand of Doom, Nero will eventually run out of his slew of devil breakers leaving it to his Devil Trigger to fight Hellboy’s Devil Heart. Remember those two feats this match came down to? Both Hellboy and Dante tanked their strongest attack in base, not even in their devil forms, so imagine just how much more powerful Devil Heart Hellboy must be.
It was a hell of a time researching this fight, and I’m proud to say that I was able to give Hellboy a fighting chance, and thankfully it seems to have paid off with him taking the lead in a fight for the longest time I thought he lost. I’ve always loved the series since I was little and old enough to watch the original Del Toro films as a kid, and being able to do the character justice definitely makes me happy.
Yes, that’s me with a Hellboy wax statue. Clearly I’m biased.
Looks like Hellboy is gonna make this devil cry, and Nero will have most definitely met his doom.
Cyber
First thing off the bat, I want to thank all of G1 for having me after these last few months.
Nero vs Hellboy, a rare “the one” matchup. Once I heard this made the cut for the blogs, I knew I would have to make a verdict on it. These last two weeks have been a shocking eye opener on many things. I’ll start this by addressing the ultimate elephant in the room, UNIVERSAL DEVIL MAY CRY. As an advocate for that tier for the latter part of the last two years, I have decided to give my current perspective on this tier first before the matchup itself. You can find my current take above in “the devil in the room” section. As such my verdict will be shorter than what I used to put out.
DMC topics I wasn't able to discuss above entail this page. A Lot of the hax argued here doesn't really line up with what we see visually in the games or anime. Human soldiers could fight demons in 5 without any passive hax affecting them (heck they could kill these guys with sufficient bullets), alongside the anime flat out showing humans multiple times near demons with no adverse effects (besides the demons trying to kill them).
The issue stems from some forums having very lenient standards for what they interpret as hax, so it just gets slapped on at every opportunity. Stuff like “low goldy regen” is given despite contradictions such as Dante not being able to heal from his wounds from Urizen, instead requiring a month long power nap to heal and energy from the Qliphoth as well.
The blog also assumes Dante, Vergil, and Nero share most of the same hax and resistances. While some of this is true, I have trimmed what I believe consistent enough to give Nero from that blog in here. Some stuff was cut because he either does not show it or him having is contradicted by the games and novels. None of the hax I've collected really changes the fight. Only the reactive power growth and regen really assist Nero, but his regen has limits and so does the reactive evolution (Urizen case in point)
For speed, Nero is objectively faster than Hellboy. Giving Hellboy the leniency that allows sub rel/rel arguments for him grants nero scaling to Dante’s dmc 2 feat, and more Importantly the space flight feat is far more impressive than speed feat Hellboy can scale to.
Attack Potency started in Hellboy’s favor with a minor lead, then DMC calcs took a nosedive. We had to recalc some stuff due to either assumptions or incorrect values. Heck there was a recalc of the 1 gigaton island explosion, it now sits at 300+ Kilotons, which is large town level.
I am of the personal belief any dc/ap feat done by a character with demonic energy autoscale to physicals, due to how demonic energy works. As such, Abigail should physically scale to the portal it created, and in turn so would Dante. Dante drastically upscales from this by the end of dmc 5, Vergil scales to that, and Nero beats Vergil. Admittingly Vergil may have been tired from the prior fight with Dante, but we can exactly quantify by how much. Nero should comfortably upscale from Abigail, at 1.12 Gigatons. Hellboy sits at Petatons, being capable of one-shotting Nero to such a degree his regen won't matter.
Some might ask what about Devil Trigger Multipliers? It was stated by dmc 5 staff that the multiplier changes each game. It is not quantifiable.
The Yamato would be Nero’s only shot at winning via its ability to ignore durability via cutting through space. The issue is only Dante and Vergil show this property of the blade, nero explicitly does not. He uses the blade for explosive energy blasts and summoned swords, nothing more. It is also debatable if he should be given the blade, given it is consistently stated to be vergil’s source of power and now is back in Vergil’s hands.
Of the devil breakers, only ragtime offers a threat to Hellboy, though it cannot keep time stalled forever. Hellboy has way better AOE than Nero while in his Devil Heart form, which makes the time hax almost moot. This also keeping in mind nero does not have an unlimited amount of ragtime arms, and has to sacrifice one for an AOE time stop in the first place.
Lastly, if the section above wasn't enough to convince you universal dmc is unusable, hellboy has his own variety of universal arguments to balance that out. The sword of storms created a pocket dimension (similar to the Savior argument) and Hellboy clashed with it. Hellboy has traded blows with entities who scale to Johann when he was literally one with the universe and all of its energy (similar to the Void Mundus argument). He has scaling to Ereshigal, who made universes (essentially the Mundus argument). Hellboy the series also has realm merging (Mundus/Argosax argument) he can be scaled to. Universal DMC literally changes nothing about the matchup.
If you want to check out those feats more, just take a look at the link KirbyKid provides in his verdict.
Update:
Nero seems to have spatial cutting when using his True Devil Trigger, for the moves Maximum Bet and Showdown. The game guide confirms the moves cut space, though it has a limited range. This still wouldn’t be enough to secure a win, since Hellboy has more win cons, though it makes the fight a bit closer. Nero has to go into DT to cut space, while Hellboy could one shot him well before then.
In the end, despite being the Underdog at the start of the blog and on most forums online, Hellboy has the power to take the crown. The winner is Hellboy.
Malcolm Belmont:
Sooo,I haven't done one of these in a while. Considering that the last verdict I did was Mikasa vs Blake Belladonna which I believe was quite a few months ago. The reason why I haven't been doing a verdict is mostly due to the simple fact that life priorities got in the way plus the simple fact that there are other people that I think could cover the matchups better than i. I still wanted to make a verdict for at least one of the 5 mid-season blogs and to be honest - I have been very interested in this matchup for a while now. I have always wanted Hellboy in a DEATH BATTLE but I originally thought his best matchup would be Constantine.
Now looking at things I can definitely say that Nero is by far his best matchup and if they were to do it - honestly one of the most thematic matchups that DEATH BATTLE has ever done. These two have so much in common that it’s almost crazy and I personally would love to see them bounce off each other. But discussing the thematics of a fight is all well and good but when it comes down to it - we are predicting who wins a fight.
This fight is a fight that I thought would go one direction but completely went the other direction - at first I was like - “Nero is going to win this easily”. Considering all the hype around Universal DMC and potentially Planet i was like - Hellboy is going to get his shit pushed in. But as i kept looking at the chat as well as participating in the calls it made me realise one simple truth
Hellboy wins
Like when we first started this matchup I would never think that Hellboy would be taking the W but after seeing all the arguments and seeing all the debates - it led me to the conclusion that more often than not - Hellboy takes this.
As for why I think Hellboy takes this. Due to the other verdict makers doing a better job at going over the stats - I thought why not structure this a little bit differently and instead ask a couple of questions that I feel will be brought up in regards to this fight and what I think about it. At the end I will sum up my thoughts on why I think Hellboy wins.
The Petaton Feat:
This is the big Hellboy feat that has gotten brought up time and time again in the blog. For context - Hellboy and Elizabeth realise that Ragnarok can’t be stopped - rather Elizabeth must kill most of humanity with a fiery explosion - it is explicitly stated that Elizabeth incinerated the surface of the Planet - considering that Hellboy is set on Earth - this gave us the perfect opportunity to calc it and it came to 183.42 Petatons or Multi-Continental level. This feat puts Hellboy’s durability far above Neros which means that Nero won’t be able to even harm Hellboy. I am going to go into a few arguments against this feat and give my thoughts on why I think it’s legit.
Couldn’t it have been Hellboy’s Spirit considering that Hellboy “died” in Issue 11 so it wouldn’t scale to his durability?
It is a fair point that Hellboy quote on quote died at the end of Issue 11:
And then he appears fine looking at his “dead body”. This would maybe imply that Hellboy is a spirit when he tanked Elizabeth’s fire but I disagree for a few reasons. First - Hecate states that it is “impossible to say what exactly he is right now”. If he was the spirit wouldn’t Hecate straight up say that he is a spirit. It’s not like the Hellboy verse doesn’t have ghosts/spirits in it. Secondly and most importantly the reason why i think Hellboy is not a spirit is well - Hellboy’s canonical death.
Hellboy ultimately decides to restore the world using his own blood to create new life which you can clearly see here.
Hellboy must have a physical body of some kind in order to bleed and produce the blood needed to restore the earth. In other words - he cannot be a spirit and thus he did indeed tank it.
Did Hellboy tank it?
The answer is quite simple - yes. We see an image of Hellboy in the fire
And then in the next page we see him be completely fine, there is no indication that Hellboy didn’t tank the fire. While some of humanity did survive the planet being incinerated - that was only because of hiding in caves while Hellboy survived in the fire that incinerated the surface of the planet. I think there is no question that he tanked it and thus he can scale
The feat is an outlier because Hellboy has no comparable feats to Elizabeth incinerating the surface of the planet/doesn’t scale to anyone comparable to that.
This is incorrect as while I will freely admit that Hellboy tanking the fire that incinerated the surface of the planet is the most impressive Hellboy feat, there are other impressive Hellboy feats that can get surprisingly close. Hellboy has fought the likes of Ogdru Jahad (whom Hellboy defeated). Who summoned a storm that laid waste to Great Britain. Hellboy also beat the brothers Thunder and Lightning, who created massive storms across the world. Both of these feats got into the Gigaton range which is still pretty impressive and higher then most everything Nero has gone. That’s not even going into the Universe Level Stuff for Hellboy which is a lot more legit then the DMC Universe stuff:
If you want to know more details then look at Kirby Kid’s verdict
While you can make some arguments against these universal legit - me and the rest of the G1DBFB mostly agree that a fair few of these Universe Level Arguments are legit. Either way though - Hellboy has the edge in destructive capability.
Would Nero be comparable to Hellboy in Durability?
The answer is quite simple no. While we don’t know what Nero’s limit is in terms of what level of TNT would kill him - we know what Dante’s limit is. In DMC1 it is established that Dante would be killed by Mundus’s Island Exploding - as such they need to go away. While it has been established that DMC characters are weaker then they are exhausted which Dante was at the end of DMC1 since he had just beaten Mundus. I don’t think the drop is too much that it would put Dante’s durability at any higher then Island Level. Considering that Nero scales to Dante and should be on a level comparable to him, Nero’s durability would be around island level and the difference is well…
Yeah
And to counter an argument in the budd - Dante is comparable from his DMC1 self to his DMC5 self. While Dante has a fair bit more experience in DMC5 - he is still relatively on the same level of power (though definitely stronger due to Majin Devil Trigger). But not to an extent that his durability would come anywhere close to Hellboys and likewise - Nero’s durability should be worse then Hellboys.
Either way you slice it, Hellboy is just stronger and more durable.
Couldn’t Nero’s Speed be enough to take down Hellboy even if he has superior durability?
The answer to this one is most likely a no. While I will grant, Nero definitely has the edge as even if you 100% buy the Particle Cannon dodging feat which would put Hellboy at Relativistic+ Dodging Speeds, there is a feat in the DMC verse that comes to 33% of lightspeed. If you don’t buy the Particle Accelerator cannon feat:
Hellboy would be Massively Hypersonic compared to Nero’s Relativistic Speeds which makes Nero a fair amount faster but the cap is not wide enough that Nero could simply outspeed and blitz Hellboy despite his much more impressive durability. Even if Nero is landing more hits then Hellboy, which he likely will due to his superior speed, the durability gap is too wide for Nero to make any lasting damage on Hellboy.
Couldn’t Nero use Time Hax and just end the fight there?
Hellboy doesn’t have any counters to the time hax, if Nero lands it then Hellboy will be temporarily frozen in time and will have to take the hit. But the issue is that the amount of time that Nero can stop is clearly not endless meaning that even if Nero stops time and lands a couple of attacks on Hellboy, Hellboy should be durable enough to take that assault and then get back to fighting like nothing happened once time resumes normally:
There’s also another issue with using the Ragtime Devil Breaker as a win condition in that, what is stopping Hellboy from realizing that something is strange then simply breaking the Ragtime Devil Breaker with the Fist of Doom. The Devil Breakers are infamously not durable and could easily be broken with a good hit from Hellboy. Meaning whilst in a fight it is far more likely for Nero to use Ragtime to tank a couple of hits from Nero then Hellboy realises what’s wrong and remove the Devil Breaker from place by crushing it or breaking it.
Wouldn’t Yamato’s space-hax be enough to circumvent Hellboy’s clear durability advantage.
As established in the Yamato section of the Nero Analysis while both Vergil and Dante have shown to be able to cut space using the blade - Nero hasn’t. Whenever he fights in DMC4 using Yamato he has never been shown using its space cutting capabilities. This implies it is a skill that needs to be learned and not something one can do naturally without any sort of practice. While Yamato is one of Nero’s most impressive weapons - I do not think it’s fair to give Nero the ability to cut through space when he has never been shown using that ability in canon. Even if you were to hypothetically give them it - it would be one win-con compared to Hellboy’s multiple win-conditions so more often than not, Hellboy would still take it.
Wouldn’t Nero’s regeneration help him significantly during this fight?
While I think Nero could likely tank a few hits from Excalibur due to his regeneration - I really think that is the extent of it and the other two main components of Hellboy’s arsenal, his Right Hand of Doom and his Hellfire manipulation could both easily put Nero down. Hellboy has shown in the past that he can make demons explode just by punching them or simply just using Hellfire (Nero is hurt by demonic abilities so he can be hurt by hellfire). The same Hellfire powerful enough to be as big as a mountain range if not bigger:
Don’t really see Nero's regeneration doing that much help against a blast like that. Before you ask no - i don’t think Nero’s clear speed advantage would do that much help avoiding a blast of that size.
Conclusion
At the end of the day, Nero has very few if any win-conditions for this fight. The closest you could get is Nero trying to use rag-time and Yamato together but Nero doesn’t know the full extent of Yamato’s abilities so it is unlikely the space-hax will come into play. While Nero is more versatile - most of his weapons and Devil Breakers are a lot weaker than the Right Hand of Doom and all of his Devil Breakers would be broken by the sheer power of the Right Hand of Doom. Plus Nero doesn’t have enough hax to get this fight to a speed/hax win and we have already established that Nero doesn’t have the power needed to damage Hellboy with his durability so it comes down to Hellboy basically getting one good hit and ending the fight right there and then.
While I do think there are some cases where you could argue a Nero win, more times than not - Hellboy takes it due to his superior destructive capability and durability. Looks like Hellboy is going to give Nero a helluva bad time.
And with that, I take my leave. I am personally really looking forward to this blog coming out and hope that it is received well..so byyyye
DekHead
Having binge read the Hellboy comics in 4 days and finished Devil May Cry 5, this fight has quickly risen up to one of my most wanted in these past few months. A lot of fun banter potential, cool style from two awesome characters, and just a solid theme to it overall.
So, how’s it all gonna go down? Well, it’s been quite the roller coaster over the past week and a half. Both are in the continent busting range, Nero has a strong speed advantage, and Nero’s versatility outdoes Hellboy plenty. So, Nero wins mid-diff right?
Uhhhhhhh about that.
The feat that gets scaled to Dante and thus Nero is fine on its own. Demonic energy can increase physicality and abilities all the same. Using it for physicality isn’t the problem itself. The problem is that the method that got it into the continent busting range isn’t what actually happens. I’ll spare you the details, but long story short, it only got continent busting because it assumes the portal pushed away the clouds, when the animation more so supports it evaporating the clouds, which only gets into the low gigatons at best. Meanwhile, Hellboy outright survived standing next to Liz when she had burned up the surface of the planet, which is millions of times greater than Nero’s best feat. You can chalk this up to his heat resistances, but putting aside Liz’s fire being a special energy Vril, not just typical flames, Hellboy has still been hurt by intense heat, such as when the Nazi officers hooked him up to an electric torture device and he still felt pain with every shock. So while the resistance helps, it doesn’t make him outright invincible to absolutely all flame damage. And even then, there are still feats of Liz having blown up an underground city and Hellboy fighting off two demons who were able to create worldwide storms. So he very much takes AP no matter how you slice it.
Speed is far simpler. Hellboy has dodged lightning attacks from the storm demons Thunder and Lightning, which would safely put him in Massively Hypersonic. Meanwhile, Nero scales to Dante and Vergil, who were able to move over 1000 times the speed of sound and the former of whom could dodge blasts that were stated to be light beams, along with being able to fly all the way from earth to another planet in a short amount of time, putting him at a fraction of the speed of light. You could potentially get Hellboy to sub-relativistic speeds via an accelerator cannon, but it’s a very generous estimate that makes a fair deal of assumptions, and this leniency would give Dante, and therefore Nero, speeds of around 28 times lightspeed via the aforementioned interplanetary flight. Combined with Nero’s Ragtime Devil Breaker, this means Nero has a very comfortable speed advantage.
Unfortunately for Nero, while his speed, mobility in Devil Trigger, and more versatile set of Devil Breakers are definitely enough to keep Hellboy on his toes and allow him to get plenty of hits in, along with his healing factor allowing him to last a long time in the fight, he ultimately doesn’t have the proper power to kill Hellboy before Hellboy lands the one blow he needs to put Nero down. You could make the argument for Nero just running circles around Hellboy, chipping away at him until he can land the final blow, but Hellboy could even counter that strategy with his Devil Heart form, which lets him grow to the size of a mountain range and consume the entire area in flames, giving Nero very little room to dodge for long. Not to mention that Hellboy’s own healing factor, while inferior overall, still gives him plenty of stamina and durability to repair any damage that Nero could cause, if he could cause anything that lasts at all with the aforementioned power gap.
The only real way for Nero to bypass Hellboy’s durability is through Yamato, a weapon he ultimately no longer has and hasn’t shown strong proficiency with. This could grant him the win in plenty of cases, but even then, Hellboy’s area of effect in Devil Heart means that Nero likely wouldn’t get the opportunity to hit him with the sword before he’s simply burnt to ashes or crushed like a bug.
This is certainly a surprise, and personally, I went into this expecting the opposite result. But in the end, Hellboy’s area control, greater experience, and vastly superior durability and strength are enough to put Nero down for good.
Also Universal Devil May Cry ded and Hellboy gets to Universal more solidly but I don’t need to repeat it after all that.
While the devil was in the details, Hellboy had what he needed to bring Nero down singlehanded.
Phantom Falcon
Hu Tao is best girl. Sorry, don’t make the rules
Hellboy vs Nero is a damn good matchup. Solid connections and badass animation potential with two dope characters, what’s not to love? Easily one of my most wanted fights in the whole show, hope we get it someday. This was also honestly some of the most fun I’ve ever had on a blog, and I want to thank the broski’s Kirby, Cyber, and Dek for that. Y’all rule.
Hellboy has been under researched in the vs community, if VSB’s page hasn’t shown you that. Simply put, the guy is way above Building level, or even Large Town level. By scaling to even earlier feats in the comics, Roger melting the flesh of a giant colossus is comfortably sitting at City Block level, and it gets crazier than that. Demons in the comics and movies have created massive storms that extend hundreds to even thousands of kilometers in diameter, which would require gigatons of energy to create, and Liz pulling an Officer Black is even strong enough to hit teratons. Except Liz goes beyond just that, given how she literally burned the surface of the entire fucking planet, which Hellboy was in the epicenter of and survived. While Hellboy does have pretty good heat resistance, Liz’s flames aren’t the typical hot kind, and very clearly have a physical and explosive impact. Even then, Hellboy has fought characters that can survive her fire without heat resistance, so he scales just fine. There’s some universal arguments for Hellboy, but I won’t get into it so Kirby explained it well enough. As for speed, dodging lightning from storm demons puts him at Massively Hypersonic, and given how the lightning they summon to attack Hellboy comes from the clouds, it’s safe to say it’s natural. There is a potential particle accelerator feat for Hellboy, but my grievances come with the fact that it’s never referred to as a particle accelerator, just an accelerator, and it also doesn’t share many properties to qualify as lightspeed. If you do accept it, it’s like sub-relativistic, but I’d rather just not use it.
As for Nero, it’s no question Devil May Cry stats have been in contention for quite a while, given how they can range from large town to fucking universal depending on what you buy. But at minimum, scaling to feats involving the Qliphoth tree puts them at roughly city level or so. Abigail’s feat has been argued to not scale physicality given how it was done with a ritual, but watching the episode again, the ritual was done before the portal happened, meaning the feat is purely from Abigail’s sheer energy. Originally, this feat was put in the petatons due to assuming kinetic energy, but…
It’s quite not up to our standards…
The clouds barely look like they’re even being propelled, they just...kinda disappear??? Which doesn’t bode well for the usage of KE. Kinetic Energy requires the mass of the object, in this case the clouds, to be forcibly moven, but they don’t. Not only that, but given how many explosions and fire was going on regardless, vaporization of the clouds makes more sense. This means the feat goes from a whopping 172 petatons to...7 gigatons...ouch. And unfortunately the only higher feat that doesn't reach into cosmic territory is Urizen “shaking the foundations of the world”. But not only is this line not in the original Japanese version, making it questionable to use (I translated the raw), but one could very easily argue this isn’t literally shaking the planet, since “shaking the foundations of the world” could just relate to things causing major change or serious damage, and always isn’t literal. Even being generous, this would simply reach low teratons of power output. As for speed, Dante and Vergil cutting raindrops and Nero reacting to Blitz comfortably puts him at above lightning timing speeds. DMC2 has an argument for a potential relativistic feat, and while I’m admittedly unsure on it, it’s fine as a benefit of the doubt, especially if we’re giving Hellboy relativistic based on a one off statement of calling something an “accelerator”.
So in the end, Nero is comfortably faster, while Hellboy is comfortably stronger and more durable, with the latter having a bigger number advantage in that department. Both have universal arguments, but as shown above in other verdicts, those aren’t exactly the most reliable, and even then Hellboy not only has similar universal arguments, but more ironclad and solid ones that he also upscales from by a pretty damn good amount. Nero’s regenerative capabilities are superior, but against an opponent who’s at bare minimum 100,000x more powerful than you, you’re just gonna be turned into mush. Chipping Hellboy’s health and stamina away with speed is unlikely, given not only the massive power gap, but the sheer AoE Hellboy has in his Kaiju form. Nero’s fast in combat, but not that fast in travel speed, which makes him escaping Hellboy’s massive range of fire pretty unlikely. Sure, Nero’s fought giant sized opponents before like The Savior and a bunch of other beats in DMC, but only the Savior was as big as Hellboy, and Nero managed to win because, against all odds, he could still harm him. Given the massive size difference coupled with power and durability, Hellboy’s sheer surface area against Nero in his big size will make even Nero’s strongest punches feel like a tickle. But power isn’t everything in a fight, Nero is from fucking Devil May Cry after all, he must have some hax to take the win, right?
No, not really.
Ragtime is indeed a good move to get more hits in, but as I explained above, the most it can do is just be an annoyance to Heckboi. And Nero doesn’t really have any hax besides that to get through the massive power advantage. Except for possibly one: The Yamato
BuT iT’s LeGeNdS cLeArLy ExAgGeRaTeD
Jokes aside, I firmly believe Nero should get the Yamato. Not only did he have it for a majority for DMC4, but he also kept it for several years before Dad of the Year Vergil came home. It’s not like Dante who had it for maybe an hour, the Yamato canonically thought Nero was worthy enough to use it given how he has Sparda’s blood in him, and he’s had it for the majority we’ve known him. Given the Yamato’s spatial cutting ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶o̶m̶n̶i̶p̶o̶t̶e̶n̶t̶ capabilities, surely this means that Nero can win with his speed advantage right? Well, one problem
Nero has never used the Yamato’s spatial durability negation at any point in DMC4, and we never saw him use it before Vergil shanked his ass. Whether you wanna chalk this up to Nero not knowing the blade’s true functions or whether he didn’t think it was necessary, the point stands that realistically, in a fight, unless proven otherwise, it’s pretty unlikely Nero can just negate Hellboy’s durability. And even if he could, it’s unlikely he’d think to do it before Hellboy just gets that one killing blow he needs to end the fight
Going into this, everyone here and I’m sure others reading this blog were expecting Nero to win. Even if the Matpat of VS debating known as Cyber didn’t convince you on universal DMC, Nero still seemed to hold the advantage regardless. Could there be an argument for Nero winning with the Yamato? Possibly, but against all odds, and even against our initial belief, Hellboy has enough advantages to show Nero his own personal hell.
