Death Battle Predictions: Goku Black VS Reverse-Flash

 

Goku Black, the alternate dimension doppelgänger to Goku from Dragon Ball Super

and Reverse-Flash, the time-traveling tormentor to Barry Allen from DC Comics

It’s often said that the opposite of hate is not love, but indifference. And these two held such strong hatred for great heroes that it grew into an obsession, taking the names, faces, and powers of the objects of their grudges for themselves. With their abilities to travel through time, they seek to enact plans to mold the timeline itself in a manner as they see fit, may all of time, space, and those who dwell in it be damned. 

But today, all of that power, chaos and sheer malice won’t be directed towards their foes, but rather each other. And while the tenacious Super Saiyan and Scarlet Speedster may have fought in their own battles previously, these two bring more than a few of their own tricks to the table. Will the divine double to Goku be able to wipe another mortal from reality, or will the master of the Negative Speed Force prove that none can keep up with him in a DEATH BATTLE?

A Little Heads Up

GOKU BLACK will be the main focus and not Zamasu. While both are the same character and will be explored in the background bio, the change of timelines from the actions makes their different versions of the main fighter. Remember Kids: Multiverse Theory is a Bitch. However, some of us will address the argument for Zamasu and Infinite Zamsu being added to show fairness in this matchup. 

As for the sources for Dragon Ball, the anime show will be the main source for Goku Black as it was the first introduction to the character. The manga will be secondary in supporting the main source. Any outside series like Dragon Ball FighterZ will be excluded as they are not a part of the canon material. 

Since another DC character is on here, we will discuss to newcomers how we deal with complicated comic characters. For Reverse-Flash or Eobard Thawne, since he is the original and main villain for the name, the DC comics will be the main source. We are combining all eras: Post-Crisis, Pre-Crisis, Flashpoint, 52, and Rebirth to the franchise. And while yes, Thawne has lost his Paradoxical Existence, Immortality, and various other abilities in his latest appearance, these will still be included due to how vital it is to his character to function. Without it, he’s just a harmless museum curator.  

With that out of the way, let’s see if this Pink Faker has what it takes to beat the negative speedster.

fuck you no ifninite zamasu

  Background

Goku Black 

“I will purge all mortals from existence. In place of the gods who refuse to admit their failures!”

Twelve universes the world expands into…twelve universes for the races of men, aliens, monsters, and gods. The world of Dragon Ball is anything but small, by itself, it encompasses a big expanse of everything that is the multiverse itself, so it is only natural that creatures of a higher self dedicate their existence to oversee the infinity of the cosmos. You may be familiar with one of these entities, The Gods of Destruction, harbingers of oblivion trained by the angels themselves, forever tasked with erasing planets so new life can come forth. And the other side, the important ones to this story, are the Supreme Kais, divine guardians with the burden of breathing life into new worlds to see them prosper and grow…And in one of those twelve universes, the Tenth, in fact, is where our story begins, with a simple Northern Kai named Zamasu.

Long ago, after being taken as an apprentice by the in-then charge Supreme Kai Gowasu, Zamasu was previously Northern Kai who after showing great care for the craft and tremendous fighting skill, was chosen by the latter to be his future successor, and so many years ago he was taken under his wing to learn the ways of the Supreme Kai to become worthy. Though such a thing wasn’t easy because you see…Zamasu, he had changed, the once eager young man, upon seeing so many horrible things, began to believe mortals were useless. To only make matters worse, as the days became months and months became years he saw his own master, his ambivalence towards his own task, he saw the Destroyers as pity figures focused on status and became angrier. He HAD to do something to save this creation, and if that meant killing everything in his path? Then so be it. Thus he developed the “Project Zero Mortals”, a plan to eliminate both gods and mortals forever. He would use the Super Dragon Balls and the Time rings (Both mystical objects he had learned on his own from his endless scheming) to achieve his ultimate goal to become the only immortal.

Though, in the midst of all this, in a timeline in a universe far from his own something strange was happening. A doppelganger of a certain warrior had appeared and wreak some havoc, a man of unmistakable visage…A Saiyan clad in ebony recognizable as Son Goku. And upon some planning of their own (the normal Goku not GB), they decided to pay a visit to the Kai. Later in there, in the chambers of Gowasu, the noble alien warrior begged the Kai in training to spar, reluctantly agreeing to do so at the request of his teacher, the two battled, and though Zamasu’s talent was clear, he was soundly defeated by the mortal. This…as you can imagine, was the straw that broke the space camel’s back. Zamasu was feeling something that couldn’t be described by mortal or godlike words. A sensation that ate at him and made him realize that he was right, and he must put his plan forth post-haste. It wasn't long before this timeline’s Zamasu had assassinated his master and took the time rings for himself. And with it he had made sure to use the Super Dragon Balls. Summoning the dragon, he made his wish, for his body and mind to be changed with the earthling he lost to, and so it was done. Soon after Zamasu was in Goku’s body, and he would go even further to enact his scheme. Upon taking his body, the man (in an act of unrivaled petty) took away the things he loves most, his family, friends, even his world. Destroying his old body and leaving behind the last trace of his weakness, strangely enough almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy, the cycle was complete of sorts.

That day neither Zamasu nor Goku existed anymore. He was something else, something new. A harbinger of justice fueled by unimaginable rage. Goku Black was born. And like a phoenix rising from the ashes, Goku Black rose to the occasion, enacting the rest of his plan. Destroying countless worlds in the name of justice all in the search for a timeline for his next step, and soon he would find a perfect one. A timeline where the Kai’s were dead, and as such the Gods of Destruction as well…a timeline weak enough to never oppose him, a world where he could finally rule. As luck would have it, however, because timelines are a funny thing, he would be in the era of the so-called “Trunks”, a Saiyan warrior of royal blood. Ultimately they would clash, with Goku Black trying to kill him to enact his new world, to rule and clean the world he saw as such filth, starting from the planet the man loved so much, and yet the young warrior would resist, like a cockroach that refuses to be exterminated. The vermin grew, he formed a rebellion, and though ultimately fruitless, their fighting spirit was enough to put up a fight. It wasn’t long before Trunks, in a desperate gamble (like he had done so many years past) would travel into the past to find something, someone that could help him reclaim their world. Soon, Goku Black would find the very man from which he had stolen his body, Son Goku (and Prince of all Jobbers Vegeta).

He would ultimately fight against these time-hopping warriors, waging war with them for the sake of keeping his Utopia a reality…whether he succeeded or not, well, that’s a story for another time (he didn’t). But one thing is clear: Goku Black will stop at nothing to have his way, either be in one or a hundred timelines, he is the embodiment of divine retribution and nothing shall stand in his path. If you see him, you better make peace with whatever god you pray to, because I can assure you one thing.

He won’t be listening. 

Reverse-Flash

“Who would have thought? I have a legacy of my own. Centuries before I will even be born. It's backwards. It's reverse. It's destiny.”

Sometimes it is best to never meet your ideals. The ideals shown from earlier fighters have brought them into being the greatest of heroes like Rock Lee. However, this is not always the case in some situations as the interaction can result in the creation of your worst enemy. And for Barry Allen and the bearers of The Flash, it resulted in bringing out their worst arch-nemesis that all follow Barry’s shadow. 

Eobard Zoom Thawne was born in 2451, the future around the 25th century, and actually had problems at the start. Despite his social skills and hard time focusing, he was determined to work and study his ideal, hero, and “friend”, The 2nd Flash, or Barry Allen. (Keep in mind as the future was aware of Allen’s identity and legacy in his life, so big karma coming) He would achieve in becoming a professor at the Flash Museum by exploring both his deal and the Speed Force. It was his knowledge and exploration of the Speed he was nicknamed, Professor Zoom, and continuing in fantasizing his ideal he ended up believing he was Barry. Went as far as plastic surgery just to look like Barry. One day, he discovered one of Barry’s equipment, the Cosmic Treadmill, that allows the user to time travel. After getting it, Zoom would finally get to travel to the past and meet his idol. 

But, shit hit the fan that sealed his fate. Due to the treadmill not being active, it created a huge side effect that brought Zoom several years after Barry’s death and where Wally West became the third Flash. He went madly unstable when he discovered from that version’s Flash Museum where he would become Allen’s greatest enemy: The Reverse-Flash. 

To try and save Allen’s legacy and prevent this, he would disguise himself as Allen and trick Wally West for several months. Until he went mad again by having one of his identity crises exposed him and Wally realizing he was a faker. With Wally’s assistance with Hal Jordan and his allies, Zoom was defeated and tricked into returning to his timeline with his powers from the Cosmic Treadmill gone and forgetting everything that happened. All except for one thing: his hatred for Barry Allen. 

He would start his criminal record in his “Professor” which was short-lived when he found a time capsule where one of the items was the Silver Age costume of the Flash. This was where he started accepting his legacy and turned it yellow and would start gaining and learning the abilities of the Flash thanks to the Speed Force energy which was in the suit. Professor Zoom would master and learn from The Speed Force, and make Barry Allen’s destiny a living hell by screwing his origin through any means including his own. 

No matter how fast you will run, they will always be a Reverse to counter that action.  

Equipment

Goku Black

Time Ring

After killing his master Gowasu, Black stole his Time Ring, an extremely valuable accessory only available to Supreme Kai’s with useful abilities. While time travel is something Dragon Ball isn’t unfamiliar with, Time Rings allow “natural” time travel, meaning alternate timelines aren’t created when time traveling. However, it only allows travel from the future and present, as according to Whis, time traveling to the past should be impossible with a Time Ring. Additionally, anyone with a Time Ring is granted acausality: While the Zamasu from the altered main timeline was destroyed by Beerus due to Future Trunks altering the timeline, the original present Zamasu, or Goku Black, still continued to exist with his unaltered history thanks to the Time Ring. Time Rings are also sensitive to distortions in time, and if there’s an unnatural distortion, the Time Ring will react by creating a dark portal. This allows the user to travel between the past, present, or future of altered destinations for a short period. Soon enough, the distortion returns to normal and the user is pulled back to their original age, sealing off that era of time.

Potara Earrings

Potara Earrings are also unique items only available to the Supreme Kai’s. Aside from allowing them to properly use Time Rings, the Potara have a unique ability to fuse two individuals together if they wear them on separate ears. The duration of this fusion varies: should a Supreme Kai be involved, the fusion is permanent, with the only known method of defusing them being the Dragon Balls. However, if no Supreme Kai is involved, the duration is usually about an hour, but this can be shortened should the fusion be too powerful. Black and Future Zamasu have Potara Earrings and can fuse at any time they want, but they prefer to do so as a last resort. 

Reverse-Flash

Costume Ring

This special signet ring as the name states is where the costume where all Flashes are put and can pop them out at any time, these suits are coated in a special chemical to ​​protect against heat and air friction. His most recent suit is made from pieces of conductive metal which he can store in the ring via thermal expansion and combined with his electromagnetism, can conduct the pieces around his body at will. The suction of the ring can also weaken radiation.

Lightning Rod 

Since Zoom didn’t have any friends or family to ground himself from being consumed by the (Negative) Speed Force when entering it like Barry or Wally, he decided to create his own. This rod is able to take in the Speed Force and focuses it into a destructive force. It can be used as a melee weapon, be strong enough to block hits from Jay Garrick and as a bonus, it can conduct lightning.  

Spoiler alert; at the end of Finish Line, Thawne gained a physical lightning rod being Barry Allen. However, this caused his entire history to be reset.

Element Z

(Z for Zoom of course)

A new element discovered by Thawne used to grant super-speed and vibrations similar to the wave patterns of the Flash’s uniform (which gives powers btw), kept in a locket around his neck; the effects of the element can only work if it’s absolutely pure and stable. 

While this isn’t as good as the Negative Speed Force or siphoned off powers, it’s worth noting that he has backup powers in case he loses connection with the Negative Speed Force or his powers get taken away. 

Explosives

Thawne has set an explosive trap on the cosmic treadmill that, when activated, disperses atoms across the past and future through the time barrier. The shock waves from the blast were capable of tearing Flash apart in less than 3/100ths of a second if he hadn't acted. 

Cosma-Spurs

Thawne can fire energy blasts known as Cosma-spurs, which can drain stamina, speed and negate durability on a molecular level to an extent.

Matter Distributor

Rigged out of an electric shaver, the matter distributor not only allows Thawne to create structures like trees, rope, or even a ball & chain with a simple click of a button, it also allows him to alter his own appearance to that of whoever he wishes.

Shrinking & Enlargement Ray

Using a special gun from the future, Thawne is able to shrink someone to at least one-tenth of their size or reverse the effects at a moment’s notice.

Hologram Projector 

The 25th century has a lot of strange and bizarre technology, including this advanced 3-D holographic image projector that can not only keep up with the Flash speed-wise but is also capable of fooling him as well.

Twin Portable Electro-Rockets 

If Professor Zoom ever needs an extra boost of acceleration, he has these rockets to do so. It also allows him to fly at hypervelocity speeds and leaves a trail of exhaust that can slow down the Flash.   

Heavy-Matter Boots

Thawne has used boots made of heavy matter, an anti-phasing material powerful enough to prevent Barry Allen from vibrating out of them. It can also triple its weight even 2/10ths of a second, becoming so heavy that normal matter behaves like a liquid in comparison.

Ultra-Speed

Thawne has invented Ultra-Speed, a process of which he speeds up electrons and other subatomic particles to influence an individual to act out on their evil and violent emotions. He has a special machine to implement these that can cover the entirety of Central City and can somehow project itself through time with it firing a beam from the 25th century to the 20th. He is able to control it by tuning his mental wavelength to match that of his machine.  

Ultra-Radiation 

Ultra-Speed isn’t the only Ultra tool he has; he also has Ultra-Radiation, which is radiation that’s strong enough to cancel out even the super-speed of the Flash. A future version of this special radiation can also sap willpower in order to prevent whoever has been trapped in it from using speed or mental powers to escape.

Syntho-Steed

Robotic horses engineered by Thawne himself in exchange for a pardon, the syntho-steed’s body armor is designed to repel any and all attacks on it. This armor is so effective, even Green Lantern constructs can’t break it or even himself and instead are absorbed and reshaped. This can even make a Speed Force user lose control of their speed when coming close to it.

Abilities

Goku Black

Saiyan Physiology

Due to possessing the body of Goku, Black has the natural cells and abilities of a typical Saiyan. He possesses incredible strength, blistering speed, and can take an unimaginable amount of punishment. However, Black also possesses a unique version of the Zenkai Boost, an ability that allows Saiyan’s to get stronger after near death. While a typical Zenkai Boost only activates in those scenarios, Black actually gets stronger for nearly every blow dealt with him, and even minor injuries and bruises can cause notable increases in power, which he learned after his encounter with Goku...the real one. This somewhat caused Black to become a sort of masochist, letting his opponents land brutal blows on him on some occasions in order to increase his strength. Black also has impressive adaptability and mimicry, as, after a single fight with Goku, he managed to refine his entire fighting style to be similar to Goku’s, which further increased his power. This unique ability, combined with the typical combat prowess of a Saiyan (and even Goku’s own), makes Black a dangerous foe to fight.

Hand-to-Hand Combat

Like many fighters in the Dragon Ball universe (smh copycat), Black is an incredibly skilled martial artist. As Zamasu, he was already a prodigy among the Supreme Kai’s, but after mimicking the fighting style of Goku, he became a force to be reckoned with. Black’s fighting style is a mix of finesse and close-quarters combat, the former showing Zamasu’s elegance and calm style, and the latter showing Goku’s own combat capabilities. This unique combination helped him to match and even overwhelm incredibly skilled fighters like Goku and Vegeta (the former of which Zamasu’s original fighting style couldn’t match).

Ki manipulation

Wait is that a fucking scythe

Again, like every fighter in Dragon Ball, Black can utilize and manipulate his own Ki, or latent energy, a tangible energy inside every living being. With enough skill, an individual can draw out and control their own Ki for various purposes in combat, like using them as techniques or to enhance their physicalities. There are various different types of Ki, and Black possesses both the regular Ki and God Ki, the latter of which is only available to those who have reached divine status. With Ki, Black can use multiple techniques:

• Flight: You know the drill. By making use of Ki, Black gains the ability to fly at high speeds.

• Ki Blasts: The most basic form of a Ki attack, Black fires small but powerful spheres of energy.

• God Split Cut: Black and Zamasu’s signature technique. By creating a sharp field of energy around his arm, Black charges at his opponent and attempts to slice and dice them.

• Violent Fierce God Slicer: An enhanced and stronger version of the God Split Cut used after Black achieves Super Saiyan Rosé, now with a pretty pink color.

• God Slicer: Black charges at his opponent while firing multiple energy blasts from his hand. Once he’s done firing, he rushes in and impales his opponent.

• Shattering God Slicer: Black kicks his opponent and rushes at them, swinging and slicing at them with an energy blade.

• Azure Dragon Sword Model Energy Blade: (w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶f̶u̶c̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶o̶u̶t̶h̶f̶u̶l̶) An even stronger version of the Violent Fierce God Slicer. It’s bigger, stronger, and has even more pink.

• Divine Lasso: Black, with his stupidly long name of a sword, fires multiple energy blade-like attacks at his opponent, stabbing them throughout pretty much all their body, which later explode.

• Sickle of Sorrow: The last of Black’s blade techniques is undoubtedly his strongest. By using his anger to make himself stronger, Black creates a large purple energy scythe, a representation of his “divine rage” toward the gods and mortals of the universe. A single slash is powerful to create a rift through both space and time. The rift itself is mysterious, with not even Black knowing where it comes from. This rift can also create…

• Shadows: ...clones to come out of it! While these clones are rather fragile and dissipate after one hit, they’re resourcefulness comes in the fact that they can spawn more clones everytime they’re defeated, and if Black wishes, he can create more. And despite being fragile, they’re strength is nothing to laugh at, given how they gave Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta trouble. However, should Black end up far away from the rift, the rift itself, and thus the clones too, shall disappear.

• The Work of the Gods: By slicing his opponent with his scythe, Black bombards the poor soul who got hit with his Shadows, up into the air and back into the ground before Black makes one last brutal slash with his scythe. It’s also one of the coolest fucking Level 3’s in FighterZ don’t @ me.

• Black Power Ball: A yellow ball of energy with a dark core, Black fires this attack at his enemy, creating a massive explosion upon impact. He can even use a smaller sized, but rapid-fire version of this technique.

• Divine Retribution: A stronger version of the Black Power Ball achieved in his Super Saiyan Rosé form, but now pink...again. Black has multiple ways of utilizing this, whether it be as an energy wave to push opponents back, or teleporting above them and utilizing it as an energy blade to slice them.

• Holy Light Grenade: By combining his Black Power Ball with Future Zamasu’s own, they create a massive sun-like or purple colored energy ball, depending on which form Black is in. Once fired, it detonates on impact, creating a massive explosion.

• Black Kamehameha: It wouldn’t be a Goku clone without his signature technique, the Kamehameha. Although it may just seem like a color change, Black’s version of this technique is just as fast and deadly as the original. He can even charge it for longer to create a bigger and more powerful version called the Super Black Kamehameha in his Super Saiyan Rosé form.

• Binding Black Kamehameha: Basically the same as above, but pretty much a guaranteed hit against most opponents. Future Zamasu grabs the opponent from behind, holding them together, as Black fires his Black Kamehameha at his opponent, rendering them helpless as the blast approaches and explodes on them, with Future Zamasu no worse for wear thanks to his immortality.

• Instant Transmission: The Kamehameha isn’t the only move Black copied from our favorite Super Saiyan. The Instant Transmission technique was developed by the Yardrats, who taught it to Goku when he arrived on their planet after narrowly escaping the destruction of Planet Namek. Black uses this technique to escape dangerous situations, teleport far distances, and most of all, using it as a sneak attack on unsuspecting foes.

• Sudden Death Beam: (This move isn’t a Freeza rip off I swear) Black dodges a blow from his opponent and teleports behind them, firing a small and deadly energy wave on the confused enemy.

• Thundershock Surprise: In the manga, Black shocks the target with electricity, allowing him to leave them temporarily paralyzed and free to throw around to his whims.

Transformations

Black just can’t stop copying fuckers, for shame. All jokes aside, the Saiyan race can achieve multiple forms, ranging from the Great Ape, the Legendary Super Saiyan, and more. Thanks to possessing Goku’s body, Black has the ability to turn into various Super Saiyan forms.

Super Saiyan

In the manga, Black has shown the ability to access the basic Super Saiyan form, with the intensity of his power causing sparks reminiscent of Super Saiyan 2 in appearance. While his lack of experience with this state led to a crippling defeat at the hands of Vegeta, he would go on to achieve further power as a result of this loss.

Super Saiyan Rosé

I think he really likes the color pink

Don’t let the underwhelming color fool you; Super Saiyan Rosé is one of the strongest and deadliest transformations in the entire series. After his battle with Goku, Black forced himself to copy, understand, and master his body’s full potential, ultimately leading to the creation of Super Saiyan Rosé, his own version of Super Saiyan Blue. It’s speculated by Future Zamasu that due to his natural divine Ki, Black’s hair turns pink instead of blue. This form gives multiple benefits that the standard Super Saiyan Blue does not: it provides Black with perfect Ki control, to the point where he can form multiple variations of energy blades, his Zenkai Boost is dramatically enhanced, and he can keep this form up for long periods of time without his immense strength and stamina decreasing.

Also for some reason, this form gives him a British accent...don’t ask.

Fused Zamasu

When Rosé isn’t enough, Black and Future Zamasu pull out their ultimate trump card: By merging together with the Potara Earrings, they become a fused being of unbelievable power known as...Fused Zamasu. Very creative. Aside from the sleek-looking design, Fused Zamasu’s power is out of this world. His strength isn’t simply just a sum of Black and Zamasu, but rather their powers being significantly magnified as a result. With the immortality and healing factor of Zamasu combined with the near-limitless potential growth and absurd strength of Black, Fused Zamasu ultimately proves himself to be one of the strongest fusions in the entire series, capable of single-handedly demolishing both Goku and Vegeta in their Super Saiyan Blue forms with next to no effort.

Half-Corrupted Fused Zamasu

After being hit by Goku’s full power Kamehameha, Fused Zamasu’s right face suffered massive damage, becoming disfigured. Angered at being this damaged by a mere NINGEN, Fused Zamasu’s calm facade cracks, and he decides to strike himself with the Light of Divine Justice, causing his right side to mutate completely into Gak and turning him into a “half-corrupted” state. Gone is the elegance and finesse combat of Zamasu and Black, born is Fused Zamasu’s new fighting style, focusing entirely on brutal swings and blows and trying to crush his opponent in his anger. According to Gowasu, this grotesque form is likely due to an imbalance between Zamasu’s immortality and Black’s mortal body, meaning Fused Zamasu’s isn’t completely immortal: although he can’t die from age, his body is now vulnerable to attacks and even physical destruction. That doesn’t mean Fused Zamasu is suddenly a cake-walk though. This form enhances his size, strength, and durability, enough to let him keep up with even the likes of Vegito Blue. Also, while he isn’t completely immortal, he still possesses a potent healing factor, enough to regenerate from a hole in his chest. Fused Zamasu can even amp his power further by increasing his muscle mass, though this comes at a great loss of his speed.

Techniques

Alongside insane power, Fused Zamasu gains a variety of unique techniques:

• Electric Shock: Zamasu grabs his opponent, whether it be by the legs or arms, and sends a powerful electric shock, enough to leave even the toughest warriors screaming in pain.

• Barrier of Light: A white halo forms behind Fused Zamasu, acting as a sort of barrier, and defending him from nearly all attacks. This barrier isn’t perfect however and can be broken with enough power. Just ask Zamasu himself.

• Wall of Light: Another defensive barrier by Fused Zamasu, this time in the shape of a bird for some reason. Not only does this protect Fused Zamasu from attacks, but the bird itself can also fire blasts of energy called Absolute Lightning, acting as a perfect offensive and defensive tool. However, it’s weak spot is it’s core, and should it be destroyed, the barrier dissipates.

• Blades of Judgement: From his halo, Fused Zamasu fires multiple red energy blades at his opponent, striking them multiple times. If the blades manage to hit the ground, they explode on contact, dealing extra damage.

• Divine Wrath: A purple energy wave version of Holy Light Grenade that Fused Zamasu fires at his opponent.

• Holy Wrath: Fused Zamasu charges up a sun-like ball of energy and fires it at his opponent. While it shoots out and starts off small, the moment it makes an impact, the energy ball expands to the size of buildings, detonating upon contact with the opponent and damaging anyone unfortunate enough to get caught in the blast.

• Light of Divine Justice: Should he be pushed enough, Fused Zamasu will call out this technique's name and raise his arm into the sky. Suddenly, purple lightning strikes Fused Zamasu’s body, further mutating his body and severely damaging his right arm. While this may harm him a good amount, it gives him even higher levels of power than before. He even has a second variation of this technique, where he fires a devastating energy beam from his eye

• Divine Hammer: Taking advantage of his new fighting style, the corrupted state of Fused Zamasu swings his arm around brutally, not only seriously damaging anyone who dares to get close, but strong enough to cause whirlwinds with a massive range.

• Spiral of Condemnation: Basically an enhanced version of the Divine Hammer. Fused Zamasu enhances the whirlwinds and shockwaves from his attacks with Ki, giving them an extra boost in power.

• Flames of Retribution: Fused Zamasu gathers energy into his corrupted eye and unleashes a massive burst of energy around him, which can be used to push enemies back or deal damage to them and their surrounding area.

• Portal Opening: In the manga, Fused Zamasu gains the ability to create portals. He can use this to travel large distances or to punch his opponent from a distance.

Infinite Zamasu

This guy...er, these guys, just refuse to die. Even if you managed to overcome Fused Zamasu’s healing factor and completely destroy his body, that’s not enough to permanently kill him. Thanks to Zamasu’s immortality, Fused Zamasu’s essence still lives on and reappears as Infinite Zamasu. In this state, he’s a non-corporeal and omnipresent entity, merging with not just the universe, but the entire multiverse, and even attempting to merge with alternate timelines. Infinite Zamasu is nearly indestructible, with the only thing known to kill him being the complete erasure of the current multiverse and timeline he resides in.

This form is quite different in the manga, however. Keeping true to its namesake, the manga has Infinite Zamasu quite literally being a nearly endless army of Fused Zamasu’s. These clones are just as strong as the regular Fused Zamasu, and the more Zamasu’s you destroy, the more you end up forming, making this an incredibly dangerous ability should it ever come out. However, much like it’s anime counterpart, complete annihilation of the timeline will put him down for good.

Reverse-Flash

Negative Speed Force

Described as cancerous energy generated from Thawne’s absorption of the Speed Force (the barrier that surrounds the entire multiverse which separates the multiverse from the Sphere of the Gods, said to exist within every universe, era, dimension and every part of reality and supplies everything with kinetic energy) and is the opposite of hope materialized, the Negative Speed Force is Thawne’s primary source of energy and the source for a good majority of his emotion-reactant abilities. He is the generator of this energy and can generate it with each step he takes. 

This power is also directly controlled by emotions; the angrier the user grows, the more destructive it’s power gets. It can also turn normal Speed Force users' powers destructive and can tear the user apart inside-out with prolonged use. However, running aside a Speed Force user can calm the negativity down.  

If he feels like it, can trap others in it like Barry, Max Mercury and Jesse Quick and trying to escape or staying too long in it can break people down on an atomic level, and can cut a speedster off from the Speed Force.

Negative Speed Force Aura

(This is Barry affected with the Negative Speed Force)

Like the other DC speedsters, he is passively surrounded by an aura that is kind of like a semi-forcefield that can absorb damage before building it up before it explodes and negate heat & friction when running at high speeds. However, unlike Speed Force users, his aura can repel others and incinerate most physical things before they make a direct contract if he chooses so.

Accelerated Healing

Thawne, just like any other Speed Force conduit has the ability to heal at an accelerated rate to where normally fatal injuries can’t kill him. Combined with his immortality (see below), this makes it pretty much impossible to put him down through normal means alone.

Vibrational Manipulation 

As Thawne has complete control of his atoms and molecules, he is able to force them to vibrate at a certain frequency, to achieve several different unique effects. This is one of his primary ways of ending a fight such as vibrating someone so fast they get lobotomized, other various abilities relating to him vibrating his molecules include:

Possession

Reverse-Flash has shown the ability to merge with and even possess other beings, by vibrating at precise frequencies and entering their bodies. He was able to do this to Barry, though this required constant concentration and needed other tools to be perfect such as Nora Allen's dead body.

Phasing & Intangibility

Having complete control of his atoms and molecules is great if you need to rapidly vibrate your molecules at precise frequencies, allowing you to phase through borderline anything, from floors, walls, Hal’s constructs, to even other living beings. It’s to a point where speedsters like Irey West can’t phase through him. It’s even powerful enough to reset Barry's internal vibrations.  

This can be used defensively to avoid attacks, or offensively to directly aim for vital points of the body and ensure his powers have an even stronger effect on the target. He can even set up two conflicting waves of vibrations that can pull molecules apart. 

Invisibility

Thawne’s ability to rapidly vibrate his atoms comes with other benefits. As shown above, he can also use his power of vibration to vibrate himself into a state of invisibility. He can vibrate so quickly that cameras were unable to detect him or be invisible to the normal eye. 

Dimensional Travel 

By sheer speed and vibrations, he can open a portal to enter the Negative Speed Force which can travel across space in a matter of seconds. He is also able to match the frequency of another dimension through vibrating and therefore he can enter different dimensions, different frequencies, different universes he can go into. 

Vibrational Frequency Tracking

The Reverse-Flash’s powers grant him the ability to track down vibrational frequencies, thus allowing him to locate and track down anything out of sight based on the vibrational frequency that it emits.

Time Manipulation

 

(time, huh)

Another staple of the Flashes’ abilities, like the Speed Force, the Negative Speed Force is directly tied to all of the time and by his sheer running speed alone, Thawne can manipulate time in various ways. These time-related abilities include:

Time Travel

As with other speedsters, Thawne can vibrate at such precise frequencies and enter the timestream, and time travel through sheer speed alone, anywhere from years to centuries into the past and future. Thawne himself uses this more than any other speedster, including any of the Flashes. Unlike other Flashes, he can alter time without any consequences.   

Acausality/Fate Bypass

In the DC timeline, it is normally physically impossible to change history without consequences. Even while noting this, Thawne is still somehow able to change history with his time manipulation without consequences to the overall timeline, except for a sad Barry.

Time Slowing/Stopping 

By tapping into the Negative Speed Force, he has gained the ability to slow down his perspective of time to a point where normal humans are perceived as completely still and even completely stop time itself with a single thought if he needs to. 

Rapid Aging

One of his most morbid abilities, Thawne has the capability of aging himself to an old man, all the way down to a kid, as well as other people in a matter of seconds while getting flashes of their lives when doing so. His rapid aging powers are potent enough to turn people into dust!

Time Remnants

(Not that guy...these guys!)

While he hasn’t exactly used this power in the comics, in the CW Show, Thawne has been able to pull a Booster Gold and pull past & future versions of himself into battle, in the form of “temporal duplicates” which are shielded by the (Negative) Speed Force to prevent time paradoxes from occurring. 

However, in the comics, he has been able to pull other characters from the timeline and even send them back with a mere touch.   

Mental Powers

With a combination of vibrational frequencies and absorbing a special type of ultra-radiation, he has somehow achieved mental and mind powers. While he has seemingly lost some of these powers over the years, they will still be included for the sake of argument, the rule of composite characters, and due to being listed under his suggested media guide. These abundant 25th-century mind powers comprise of: 

Telepathy

Despite being one of Thawne’s lesser-known abilities, his telepathy is surprisingly versatile. Although the primary use of it is for controlling other people's minds (elaborated below), Thawne can use it to swap minds with people in different time periods, invade other people's minds, read minds, telekinesis, and even knock people out cold with a mental blast.

Mind Control

One of Thawne’s wackier abilities, he is able to speak at a hypnotic frequency that can push or pull others to do things they would never do, subconsciously creating doubt in their minds and makes him imperceptible to other speedsters such as Barry Allen, Jay Garrick, and Wally West.

However, it doesn’t stop with just his voice, as eye contact or even being hit with a blast of wayward mental energy is enough to force you on Thawne’s side. If someone tries to mind control him, he can adjust his mind to the proper wavelength, resisting it.  

Memory Manipulation

Thawne’s futuristic technology has granted him the power to manipulate memory to a complex degree. It’s incredibly subtle as well, allowing Reverse-Flash to erase Iris Allen’s memory almost instantly and without fellow partygoers noticing what he had done.

Lightning Generation 

A staple of the DC speedster arsenal, Thawne is no stranger to using electrical energy to blast his foes. Said electrical energy is powerful enough to put all of Wayne Manor’s security systems offline, stop blood pumping through someone's nervous system and instantly incinerate flesh. 

 

These blasts can also be combined with the Negative Speed Force; by doing so, it can corrupt Speed Force users like Barry into the Negative Flash by connecting him to it.   

Electromagnetism 

Similar to other speedsters like Wallace West, Thawne's electrokinetic abilities allow him to disrupt and control the electromagnetic spectrum to some extent. He mainly uses this power to control his suit's armor. When he releases his suit from his ring, the pieces of it are conducted by his lightning to form the suit around him. Thawne's lightning has also been shown to be strong enough to interfere with, and fry electronics such as the entirety of Wayne’s Manor’s security systems.

Energy Manipulation

By manipulating Iris's energy influx, Thawne was able to make it so that if Barry's speed force aura made contact with her, it would annihilate the universe. Theoretically, Thawne should be capable of manipulating the energy influx of anything to cause the universe to end upon contact with his aura, as well.

Speed Mirages 

A handy trick of his. By running around impossibly fast, Thawne is able to create afterimages to make himself appear at two or multiple places at once. One example of him using this was to distract Sargon the Sorcerer while he read his entire magic book.

Air Projectiles

The Reverse-Flash’s incredible speed grants him multiple methods of air manipulation, including the ability to fire bursts of air so powerful that they can manage to knock back Hal Jordan.

Vacuum Creation

Although originally a move done by The Flash, the Reverse-Flash knows a technique that allows him to form a vacuum around someone at a fast speed. This allows him to suffocate anyone who’s reliant on air to breathe, which could quickly incapacitate them given some time.

Vortexes

By running around really, really fast, spinning like a ballerina, or spinning his arms around, Thawne can create enormous vortexes strong enough to throw cars, breakstone, and drill through the earth. He’s even able to reverse other speedster's vortexes such as Johnny Quick’s and Barry's one with his speed alone.

Shockwave Generation  

By simply clapping his hands, snapping his fingers, or even simply running around, he is able to cause massive, deafening shockwaves and sonic booms, even multiple in a short period of time. 

Astral Projection 

A very wacky ability that not many people know he has, he has somehow learned a technique from the 25th century that allows himself to project his astral image through time. This projection can also interact with physical inanimate objects, after using Meson-Radiation to turn his astral image to “flesh and blood”. 

Existence Erasure

Another one of Thawne’s lesser-known hax but still horrifying, all the same, Thawne has the ability to rip people from the timestream and erase them from not just existence, but history altogether.

He’s done this to Barry’s former best friend Doug, his own brother, and the former professor of the Flash Museum.

Cosmic Awareness

 

As all speedsters have shown with this ability, they are able to sense changes in reality. Such as Thawne noticing ​​Barry creating the Flashpoint event while he was running through the timestream. This is how users who use the (Negative) Speed Force are able to be one of the first to be aware of the space-time continuum. 

Paradoxical Existence

Thawne on his own is essentially a living paradox, unbound by the constraints of causality and even continuity on occasions. This gives Thawne a shocking level of cosmic awareness, allowing him to feel each of his own deaths, even the ones prior to when he had the Negative Speed Force.

Paradoxical Immortality

​​

Quite possibly Thawne’s most terrifying ability, Thawne’s inability to be permanently killed via typical means is certainly a power to look out for. This ability stems from his existence as a living paradox.

This isn’t to say Thawne can’t be ‘killed’ for a while via physical means, however, the Negative Speed Force itself will revive him, even as a corpse!

Feats

Goku Black

Overall

• Gathered the Super Dragon Balls and stole Goku’s body

• Killed all the Supreme Kai’s, and therefore Gods of Destructions, of Future Trunks’ timeline

• Nearly killed all mortals in every universe in Future Trunks’ timeline

• Achieved Super Saiyan Rosé after just one fight with Goku

• Defeated Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks multiple times

• Posthumously accomplished Project Zero Mortals

Power

• Far above Battle of Gods arc Goku, who, during his clash with Beerus, threatened to destroy the entire Universe 7 macrocosm multiple times

• Destroyed the Super Dragon Balls, which are planetary in size

• Created explosions big enough to be seen from the curvature of the Earth

• Kicked the Super Saiyan out of Trunks

• Blasted Trunks into the ground, creating an explosion

• Effortlessly defeated Super Saiyan 2 Trunks in base form

• Pushed Goku back all the way into a mountain with his energy blast

• Smashed Goku through a mountain

• Kicked Goku hard enough to cause a crater on impact

• Destroyed Trunks’ time machine

• Managed to kick Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta dozens of meters away in base form

• Stabbed through Vegeta in Super Saiyan Rosé

• Sliced through Goku’s ki blasts

• Just the sheer shockwave of his attack shattered an entire building

• Blasted Goku down to the ground, creating an explosion

• His Super Black Kamehameha heavily damaged both Goku and Trunks

• Combining his energy with Zamasu caused an explosion that destroyed buildings

• Kicked Vegeta and Trunks into a building without so much as trying, then proceeded to destroy that building

• Stabbed through Goku’s body

• Overpowered an enraged Goku and stabbed his body multiple times with energy blades which exploded seconds later, nearly killing him

• Stabbed through Trunks’ body

• One swing from his scythe caused a rip through space and time

• As Fused Zamasu:

• Lightning of Absolution split apart the very ground and caused catastrophes around the planet

• Effortlessly blocked punches from Goku and Vegeta

• One-shot Vegeta with his lightning

• Was capable of matching Vegito Blue in strength, and even punched him hard enough to cause notable pain

• Slammed both Goku and Vegeta into the ground

• Stated he had enough power to destroy the galaxy

• As Infinite Zamasu, merged with the entire universe, possibly multiverse, and was even affecting alternate timelines

Speed

• Blitzed Super Saiyan Rage Trunks (above gif)

• Far above the Battle of Gods arc Goku, whose shockwaves in his clash with Beerus traveled through Universe 7 (410.5 quadrillion - 5.75 quintillion c)

• Caught a punch from Super Saiyan 2 Goku

• Moved so fast that it almost looked like he teleported to Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta

• Moved up through an entire building in seconds

• Reacted quick enough to activate Instant Transmission to dodge Goku’s kick

• Dodged a kick from Goku

• Blocked multiple punches from Vegeta

• Reacted to quick enough to catch a punch from Goku

• Could react to and catch a punch from Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta

• As Fused Zamasu:

• Caught punches from Goku and Vegeta simultaneously

• Could keep up with Super Saiyan Blue Vegito

Durability

• Tanked and flew through Trunks’ energy blasts

• Took a punch to the gut from Trunks and laughed it off

• Tanked his own energy ball exploding on his face

• Tanked Trunks’ Masenko with no damage

• Survived multiple energy blasts from Goku, which caused a small crater

• Took a punch to the face and to the gut from Goku

• Took a brutal pummeling from Vegeta with multiple blows only to smirk it off

• Survived a beatdown from an enraged Goku, which included being smashed into a building and into the ground

• Survived a point-blank Galick Gun from Trunks, which blasted him into a mountain

• Survived multiple rapid punches from Vegeta

• Took a punch from Vegeta that was so strong, it vaporized a skyscraper

• As Fused Zamasu:

• Took a Father-Son Galick Gun to the face, with barely any damage

• Survived being blasted in the face with a full power Kamehameha from Goku alongside his own Holy Wrath attack exploding in his face, with the only damage being his right side being disfigured

• Tanked  a Kaioken kick to the face, knocking him down into the ground

• Got punched in the face by Vegito and kicked far away, and got right back up

• Got slammed into the ground by Vegito, causing a crater

• Survived and healed from being stabbed through the chest by Vegito

• Took a Final Kamehameha unscathed

• Survived a Savage Strike attack from Vegito

• Managed to tank and regenerate from Trunks’ sword slashes

Reverse-Flash

Overall

• Is the Third Fastest entity in the DC Universe

• Obtained and mastered his skills of the Negative Speed Force

• Defeated Godspeed, Hal Jordan, Johnny Quick, Wally West, and Barry Allen

• Survived an encounter with Doctor Manhattan  

• Responsible for pretty much every bad thing that’s ever happened in Barry Allen’s life. Including but not limited to:

• Killing Barry’s mom leaving his dad to be framed for it

• Erasing Barry’s childhood friend so he would grow up without any friends

• Pushing kid Barry down a flight of stairs

• Causing an electrical fire that burned down Barry’s first house

• Leaving Barry’s back door open so his dog could run out and get hit by a car

• Killing Barry’s wife Iris

• Killing August’s brother, leading him on his path to becoming Godspeed

• Leading Hunter Zolomon on his path to becoming Zoom

• BONUS: Made an ice sculpture of Barry’s dead wife while fighting him...on the same day Barry was supposed to marry someone else and move on from Iris’ death

• Committed crimes over 500 years of time 

• With the Negative Speed Force, killed Johnny Quick 

• ​​Resisted getting his speed stolen even from the Flashes  

• Has an IQ of ​​167 

• Partially responsible for the Flashpoint event and by extension, New 52

Power

• One-shot Red Tornado

• One-shot Green Lantern Tomar-Re

• Sent Wally West flying

• Broke Kid Flash’s leg

• Knocks out Superwoman and Power Ring

• Casually snapped Godspeed’s neck

• Easily pummels Jay Garrick 

• Said to be on par with Hunter Zolomon, who:

• Is stated to hit harder than Superman

• Superman can tear apart timelines in his battle with another Superman.

• Fought a living universe.

• Shook Keystone City with a single snap

• Tackled Wally around the entire Earth

• While amped, one-shot the Justice League and Titans before they could react 

• Has enough power to free Interia from Wally's permanent speed steal   

• Scales to Wally West and Barry Allen:

• Both Wally and Barry can perform the Infinite Mass Punch, which can punch as hard as a white dwarf star

• Both when racing nearly broke Hal’s ring, who was using all of his willpower. This would allow them to scale to other Green Lantern feats, such as Kyle Rayner holding back the Big Bang

• Wally tore apart the Anti-Monitor’s armor. The Anti-Monitor and his armor scales to his Anti-Matter wave, which was going to destroy infinite universes

• Barry fought the Justice League by himself

• Barry once could’ve punched a planet off its axis

• Barry running too fast could send the spacetime continuum into oblivion

• Barry and Wally’s race nearly tore apart the very fabric of the entire DC multiverse

Speed

• Traveled through time through sheer speed alone while fighting Barry

• Pushed a young Barry Allen down the stairs before he could notice

• Fought Hal Jordan on numerous occasions, Hal Jordan has:

• Sent SoS probes across the entire universe in a heartbeat (37 duodecillion c)

• Nearly formed a speed force singularity with his construct’s speed 

• Fought Captain Atom, who destroyed and recreated the universe in a nanosecond 

• Comparable to his successor, Hunter Zolomon, who: 

• Can move and fight even when time is stopped 

• Exists outside of the linear timeline  

• Covered every inch of the planet a dozen times in less than a second when fighting Wally 

• Fought Wonder Woman who once blocked all the shatters from a god all at once across the universe (At least 52.5 quintillion c)

• Ran across the Pacific Ocean in a matter of heartbeats

• Can throw objects fast enough to cut clean through the Flash 

• Can create giant tidal waves with his speed 

• Fast enough to create vibrations to break out of the stasis cube 

• Fought Wally in a fight that lasted less than a picosecond 

• Can run fast enough to create enough friction to break Jay's aura

• Fought off every male member of the Flash family at the same time

• Blitzed Superman, Green Lantern, Booster Gold, and Rip Hunter without them being able to do anything

• Barry stated that Thawne could travel across all of time and space within the few seconds before his death

• When talking with Impulse in Barry’s body, the latter’s friends are automatically frozen in comparison because they can't keep up. These friends include Superboy and Wonder Girl 

• Traveled around the world multiple times in a fight with a Negative Speed Force Barry

• Along with Flash and Godspeed successfully escaped the existence erasure of Paradox's realm without a Cosmic Treadmill, a place that exists outside of known reality    

• Has evenly matched Barry Allen and Wally West in speed multiple times, Barry admits to him always being faster than him before the Flash War. However, he shouldn’t scale to Wally at his peak (unmoored state):

• When amped, Wally outran an instant teleporter from the edge of the universe at trans-time velocity, essentially moving in a span of time so infinitesimal, no word exists to describe it, so less than planck time. Wally has since run faster than this without the amp (58.34 vigintillion c)

• Wally outran the Big Bang

• Wally outran the physical embodiment of Death by racing it to the end of time

• Barry was able to scatter all his molecules throughout all of time in a hundredth of a second before bringing them all back 

• Both Wally and Barry can think in an attosecond

• Barry and Wally are faster than Christina amped with the speed of hundreds of Savitar follower speedsters

• Wally blitzed Superman

• Barry and Wally could run at conceptual speed through time so that they could outrace the Black Racer, the death to New Gods.

Durability

• Survived an encounter with Doctor fucking Manhattan

• Tanks an infinite mass punch from Wally, which hit as hard as a white dwarf star

• Takes hits from Jay Garrick and Max Mercury at the same time

• Survives a causal hit from Superman 

• Got slammed into a stone column by Gorilla Grodd

• Survive a blast from Cobalt Blue

• Endured being in another dimension with no food, water, or sleep for 4 years   

• In Barry's body, tanks a hit from the Flash of China

• In Barry's body, survived a full-on assault from Impulse

• Survived a punch from a Negative Speed Force empowered Barry

• Scales to Wally and Barry Allen

• Wally survived the Big Crunch, which was the implosion of the universe

• Both survived a blast from the Cold Gun, which allows Captain Cold to freeze things to absolute zero; freezing all their atomic motion to zero 

• Wally survived a wall made out of Antimatter

• Wally lived after being folded spirally

• Barry survived Darkseid’s Omega Beams at point-blank and was one of the first to recover from one of his attacks

• Barry once survived a kick to the chin from The Specter so hard it sent him to Mars 

Weaknesses

Goku Black

Despite his destructive move set and godlike power, Goku Black is just as fallible as any other mortal. When Zamasu had stolen Goku’s body, not only did he gain the Saiyan’s power and techniques, but he also gained Goku’s strong passion for battle. However, this passion led to a point where Black became sort of a masochist. He revels in others inflicting pain on himself as every attack that strikes his new body fuels his personal drive to become stronger. And just like Goku, Black prefers and desires to fight strong opponents, even going as far as holding back his full power in order to further enjoy a fight but always keeping it just ahead of his opponent's. This can be exploited where an opponent could permanently damage Black’s body and land the killing blow. In addition, Goku Black views himself as a superior being over people he views as mortals, causing him to underestimate his mortal opponents and making mistakes. Most importantly, Goku Black is kind of unhinged, occasionally bursting into slightly deranged laughter.

Reverse-Flash

Even though Eobard Thawne has the speed necessary to rival and even surpass the Flash, he’s not unstoppable in the end. Thawne is known to be the pettiest supervillain in the DC Universe, and that pettiness has to do with his obsession over the person he once idolized, Barry Allen (a.k.a. The Flash). While he dedicated his super villainous schemes to making Barry’s life as miserable as possible and many of his crimes are based on that, his obsession has often led to his downfall. The main reason is that Thawne’s obsession with Barry has held him and his speed back from his full potential. Another weakness of Thawne is his reliance on his artificial lightning rod to stay tethered to reality. Without his artificial rod, Thawne has no lightning rod to tether him back to reality, and he’ll be consumed by the (Negative) Speed Force if he chooses to enter it for an extended period of time, a very, very extended period of time that is. Finally, most of Thawne’s combat experience comes from fighting speedsters and people linked to the Speed Force, though he has fought characters not connected to the Speed Force like Superman, Booster Gold, Rip Hunter and Hal Jordan. 

Also, Girl power.

Summary

Goku Black

"I look down on existence from a much higher perspective than you do. I witness this world, this universe and the truth of all things. That yields deeper understanding. Wisdom. The realization that all mortals should be destroyed. The one and only mistake among all divine creation. That is what mortals are. And this mistake is egregious. To shape existence into the beautiful utopia it was always meant to be, the mistake must be corrected. I will purge all mortals from existence...In place of the gods who refuse to admit failure!”

Advantages:

• More skilled in hand to hand combat

• More experienced under his Supreme Kai training

• Likely has more ranged attack options

• Flight gives him greater mobility

• As Fused Zamasu, rapid aging would be ineffective

• Omnipresent with Infinite Zamasu

• Has a scythe that looks fucking cool

• SUBARASHII

• Way better wallpapers and artworks (All TN makers here would certainly agree)

Disadvantages:

• Inferior in the stat trinity, even with multipliers

• Has no counter to many of the hax provided by the Negative Speed Force

• Lacking in equipment and cannot match Thawne’s haxier tools

• The Negative Speed Force ignores acausality, meaning the Time Ring is useless

• Even if granted Infinite Zamasu, Thawne has several ways to counter it

• Lacks a solid counter to Thawne’s rebirth cycle

• The ending to his arc sucked

• Was low tier in FighterZ for the longest time

• Is British (Mal: “sadness”)

Reverse-Flash

“This ability to travel through time revealed the truth. My fate was to become your greatest enemy. I was never going to be the Flash. So I became the reverse of everything that you were. The more people you saved, the more you were loved...the more I had to take from you.”

Advantages:

• Superior in the stat trinity, even when giving Black multipliers

• Black has no reliable answer to most of his hax

• Has far more tools and gadgets at his disposal, many of which providing hax Black can’t match

• The Negative Speed Force renders the Time Ring useless, given how it ignores acausality 

• Has several ways to counter Infinite Zamasu, even if it was given to Black

• Is able to revive himself and time travel back to the fight should Black land a killing blow

• It was him, Barry

• The best part of CW Flash

• Is not British (Mal: “sadness”)

Disadvantages:

• Not as skilled in hand to hand combat

• Less experienced in training

• Not as many ranged options as Black

• Less mobility (in that he can’t fly)

• Rapid aging won’t work on Fused Zamasu

• Speed Force sword looks fucking stupid actually (What the hell even happened to that show)

• That one time he didn’t DODGE!!!!

• Is a dirty filthy NINGEN

Verdicts

Phantom Falcon

(YEAH I FEEL LIKE GOKU)

Greetings, I’m back for the Dragon Ball fight to the surprise of absolutely no one

So this matchup is pretty cool. Very solid connections, really fun animation and banter potential with how much of a dick both are, and just in general both being rad as hell characters. Goku Black and Reverse-Flash are also pretty high tier in their status in their respective franchises, and both have a large variety of abilities at their disposal. So which one is gonna come out on top?

W̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶v̶e̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶i̶d̶e̶a̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶t̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶’̶d̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶s̶h̶h̶h̶h̶h̶h̶

Thawne is pretty easy to get down. We know Death Battle buys the use of volume scaling (comparing the volume of a bigger universe to that of our own and saying it’s that many times universal), so I’ll be using that basis for my verdict. The DC universe, as most of you should know, is at least 100 trillion light years in radius. Comparing its volume as a sphere to that of our universe, destroying 1 DC universe is the equivalent of destroying 10 billion universes. And of course, DC heralds have plenty of universal feats. Just to name a few, Kyle Rayner holding back the Big Bang, Captain Atom destroying and recreating the universe in a nanosecond, Wally surviving the implosion of the universe, Barry destroying the Antimatter Cannon, which was going to destroy the 5 remaining universes left, etc. And of course, Thawne can easily scale to these. Obviously he’s fought Barry and Wally multiple times, but he’s also fought Hal multiple times, one-shot heralds like Red Tornado, and is comparable to his successor Hunter Zolomon. How strong is Hunter? Apparently strong enough to hit harder than goddamn Superman and damage Wondie. Thawne was even believed by Barry to be capable of creating a Flashpoint, which is him literally nuking an entire timeline. Flash’s are easily among high tiers in the herald spectrum, and Thawne is no exception. In fact, he can get even higher. Barry and Wally’s race nearly tore apart the fabric of the entire DC multiverse, of which is infinite in size, and Wally tore apart the Anti-Monitors armor, which can be compared to the Antimatter Cannon having the potential to nearly destroy the same infinite multiverse. Both are pretty solidly multiversal+ feats, and Barry and Wally weren’t using their full potential. Good old Eobard here is still capable of matching them even when they’ve gotten stronger, so we’re looking at multiversal-multiversal+ hsalF.

Speed wise, heralds are consistently at minimum quintillions-sextillions c, with feats like Wondie blocking god shards traveling the universe and Hal’s constructs searching the universe in a heartbeat (the calc could get duodecillions c but I have a few issues with that calc. Not that it matters much though). In fact, Captain Atom recreating the universe in a nanosecond, should we take the nanosecond part literally, is 3 nonillions c. Thawne and other Flash’s have routinely blitzed these characters and those higher than them, giving him easy scaling. Flash’s themselves have even higher finite speed calc’s, like Wally literally traveling the universe in less than planck time, with even just assuming he moved 1 meter (he didn’t lol) still means he’s traveling 61.77 decillion times light speed, with the more likely result ending up being fucking 58.34 vigintillions c (that’s 64 digits). This is, of course, ignoring the plethora of infinite speed feats Thawne scales to, like Wally racing against his own voice that was travelling through the fourth dimension, or Wally running to the end of time where the concept of death quite literally didn’t fucking exist. The crazy part about this is that Wally has literally outran a past version of himself in a race, even moving so fast that his past self couldn’t even see him, and Eobard can still keep up with him. I don’t know how that fucking works other than

Black is a bit trickier to get down. We know at minimum he scales to the shockwaves done by BoG arc Goku and Beerus, which traveled through and threatened to destroy the entire Universe 7 macrocosm, which Death Battle got to 13x more volume than ours, as well as a separate calc getting the shockwaves at a speed of 410.5 quadrillion c (the size/volume that calc got for the universe was lower than DB’s, but the difference is negligible tbh) But obviously, saying Black is just at that level isn’t really true, given the amount of upscaling he has. Our best way to get his maximum power output and speed is through the use of the dreaded word known to every versus debater.

Multipliers

Do I buy the use of multipliers? Personally, yes, at least to an extent. There should be no doubt Kaioken is a legitimate multiplier. It’s explicitly stated and shown to be a literal multiplication, and I think the same should be applied to SSJ, or in this case, SSB/SSR. I know Toriyama said it was a 10x increase instead but that makes 0 sense narratively. Kaioken times 10 Goku was getting blitzed and dunked on by 50% Freeza, and not even Kaioken times 20 could do much. SSJ on the other hand bullied the shit out of 50% Freeza, which wouldn’t make any sense if it was a 10x increase. This would mean the 50x multiplier statement makes the most narrative sense. So how far am I gonna go with multipliers on this? Well, I have an idea, just to be generous to my boi.

Black, after his fight with Goku, was capable of surviving multiple blows from Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and even managed to kick him hard enough to cause pain. So our multipliers here are gonna be 50x (SSJ1), 2x (SSJ2), 4x (SSJ3), 5x (SSG at minimum requires 5 Saiyans to do the ritual), 50x again (Blue is literally just Super Saiyan with God Ki mixed in), and then repeat this again for SSJ1 to Super Saiyan Rosé. Using Death Battle’s highest size for the macrocosm of 13 times bigger than ours, the highest I got Black’s power at is 130 billion times universal and 4.105 octillion times the speed of light.

Here’s the problem with this.

When Goku absorbed god Ki during BoG, he essentially managed to harness part of that power without actually transforming, otherwise known as “Saiyan beyond God”. More info about this is on the wiki. Regardless, the issue arrives in that the red haired God form isn’t that much stronger than SBG. His total godly power and ki didn’t increase, at least not exponentially. Goku absorbing this power just meant he knew how to tap into somewhere around, let’s say half, of SSG’s level of power, and going into the red hair form allows him to access 100% of SSG’s power. Feats performed by SSG, notably the famous universal clash, do not scale to Goku’s actual “base” form. What the real multiplier chain should be doing is using the x50 multiplier, since SSB is confirmed to just be the regular Super Saiyan transformation mixed with Super Saiyan God, and then add SSB w/Kaioken, and so on. SSJ2 and SSJ3 are not part of the same transformation line for the universal feat scaling, meaning their multipliers are cut out. So our actual multiplier for Black should be something like this:

Universal feat (13x universal) times 50 (Black survived a beatdown from Vegeta Blue without a scratch and kicked him hard enough to cause pain) times 50 again (since Super Saiyan Rosé is just SSB), which gives us...32500x universal and 1 sextillion c. Quite the drop in stats if you can’t tell. But you know what, let’s ignore this problem. Fuck it, Black is now 130 billion times universal and octillion times light speed.

It’s not even 3x stronger than Barry destroying the Antimatter Cannon.

It’s infinitely weaker than Wally tearing apart the Anti-Monitor’s armor or Wally and Barry’s race threatening the very fabric of the multiverse.

It’s nearly a thousand times slower than Captain Atom’s nanosecond universe creation and destruction. Characters who have fought him like Hal Jordan have been blitzed by Thawne before, as well as other high tier league members

It’s 14.23 undecillion times slower than Wally’s teleportation feat. Yes, Wally was amped when he did it, but he didn’t even tap into the Speed Force, and has gone faster since then without any amps, and Thawne can still match that speed.

It’s literally infinitely times slower than the many infinite to immeasurable speed feats Flashes have that Professor Zoom can scale to, or even upscale from, given how Barry himself has literally stated that Thawne is faster than him after he had to move faster than all the above speed feats

Yeahhhhhhhhhhh, Goku Black is literally being pit against a DC herald with infinite sta-

It’s not looking good for Zamasu here, but are there any other potential arguments to put him in an even league with Thawne?

No lol

To get them out of the way, the Dragon Ball universe has a few statements of being potentially infinite in size via guidebooks. That’s cool, but DC has very similar statements for their universe being infinite. At that point it’d be even AP...if it weren’t for the fact that Barry and Wally were threatening all infinite versions of these infinitely sized universes, and since Thawne scales, this gives him the lead in power once again. The shockwaves crossing the macrocosm would be infinite speed, sure, but so would Captain Atom and Hal’s speed feats, and again, Thawne as well as other speedsters have blitzed Hal. Hell, Wally even blitzed fucking Superman, a guy who would upscale from the previous feats I mentioned and even has his own infinite speed feat. Even if Black has infinite speed, Thawne blitzing those with the same kind of speed pretty much ensures he will always be faster. But hey, let’s be nice. Black can literally murder Thawne with a pinky flick if he wanted to. Does Thawne have ways around the power and durability gap?

Yes, quite a few.

As far as Black’s abilities go, he has the basic ki blasts, but he also has a sword, an even bigger sword, and a scythe that can rip through space and time, likely a form of spatial hax that can negate durability. Said rip can also create clones that, while they dissipate after one hit, can reform into even more clones, with strength on par with Black’s. Not a whole lot, but for a Dragon Ball character, he’s fairly versatile. But compared to Thawne, he’s pretty much a laughing stock.

Thawne has explosives that can disperse your entire atoms across all of time, past and future. I literally don’t know how that works or how he built it, but what matters is that this is an ability Black doesn’t have a counter form. The closest you can argue to molecular hax for Dragon Ball is Hakai I guess? But Black hasn’t resisted that ability, and when Goku did resist it, he was already way stronger than Black, so he has no solid counter to this. Hell, in the manga, Fused Zamasu, a being far above Black, was affected and nearly killed by Goku’s Hakai, which is an imperfect and weaker copy of the normal version. Thawne also has cosma-spurs which can drain Black’s stamina and stats, which can further increase the already insane speed gap between them, and at worst, drain Black’s stamina enough to where he can’t go Rosé.

Syntho-Steeds, despite looking goofy, are pretty deadly. With the ability to absorb and repel attacks, Thawne can use these as an effective defensive tool to protect himself from Black. If characters stronger than Black can’t destroy the armor, there’s no chance in hell he would be able to either, and having his own energy repelled is gonna hurt a lot. Thawne can also use their defenses to get the drop on Black and get a good hit on him.

Both Black and Eobard have time travel, but Black’s is objectively worse, since Time Rings doesn’t let someone travel to the past normally according to Whis. Thawne can freely travel back to the past at any point and kill Black there. “But the Time Ring grants Black acausality!”, I hear you say. And that’s true, except Thawne’s time travel has the unique ability to just ignore acausality altogether. In the Chain Lightning arc, time travel dumb bullshit leads to Barry dying before he could save the world from Crisis, so Anti-Monitor wins and the future where Wally becomes The Flash ceases to exist, because Earth-1 was erased from existence before it could ever become New Earth. However, Wally, still as The Flash, managed to fix it because he was immune to changes in the timestream, even though he literally shouldn’t exist anymore bc smth smth it’s speed force ain’t gotta explain shit meme. This grants him basic acausality, which Barry reasonably should have too bc lol Speed Force. This is relevant because hsalF is able to directly change the history of the Flashes (He killed Barry's mom way before she was originally intended to die after Barry’s death in CoIE), overwriting Flash's own memories despite having the Speed Force's acausality, and Flash: Rebirth even says Thawne could erase Barry from existence at any point, but can’t/shouldn’t since he needs Flash to exist to become, well, the Reverse-Flash. He eventually overcomes this weakness after Flashpoint, saying he can now kill Barry at any time without threatening his existence and dangering the timestream. Hell, Thawne even mentions Barry’s time travel can’t change the timeline, but his own can. All of this means Black’s Time Ring doesn’t protect him from Thawne just going back in time and ending the fight there...or he just ends up being a petty asshole and making Black’s life hell. 

G̶r̶a̶n̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶o̶p̶e̶ ̶D̶B̶ ̶i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶d̶e̶a̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶T̶h̶a̶w̶n̶e̶ ̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶s̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶p̶u̶n̶c̶h̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶u̶n̶n̶y̶

Should also note even if Thawne couldn’t bypass acausality, Flashes have been able to detect timeline fuckery/anomalies before, with Thawne even being able to detect and be aware of his alterations to reality and time (ha) before anyone else, meaning he would know immediately the Time Ring is either protecting Black or has just dumb timeline bullshit, and he’d just phase it off alongside Black’s entire hand. Which leads to our next ability...

Dragon Ball characters are no stranger to intangible objects/phasing. Goku was capable of interacting with Hit’s punches while he was in the Tides of Time, which can phase through solid objects. Admittedly, this ability of Hit’s can be inconsistent as shown later in the fight, but it’s still worth noting as one of Thawne’s most iconic and most used abilities is phasing. Thing is, this isn’t a full safe counter to Thawne’s own phasing. We know his phasing is superior to Wally’s, given how his phasing was already better than Wally’s at the start of his career, and Wally’s phasing could literally phase through MMH, the phasing guy lol. At best I can put it as a “maybe he resists it” type of deal, but it seems like it can affect Black regardless. And even if it couldn’t, Thawne can also use his phasing to pull entire molecules apart. But hey, let’s be nice and say Black can resist it, that’s one hax out of the table.

Thawne having the ability to possess people is pretty scary, since Dragon Ball characters in canon haven’t shown any defenses to this ability, and if we include non-canon, Baby literally managed to possess the entire Earth, including fighters like Goten, Gohan, Vegeta, etc. Either or, Black has no solid counter to this.

Speed Force BFR may not seem like such a big deal at first, given how weaker Dragon Ball characters like Gotenks and Buu have exited out of separate dimensions via Ki...except the Speed Force just doesn’t allow that. When Wally himself was trapped in the Speed Force, everytime he tried to escape, he was running the risk of dying, his life span shortening. This means, should Black try to escape, he can very easily end up killing himself doing it, meaning he has no reliable options to leave the Speed Force.

Thawne has several time manipulation abilities (insert unfunny DB meme here), including stopping time and slowing it down. Goku was capable of countering Hit’s Time-Skip, but the Time-Skip isn’t actually stopping time, as Vados explains during Goku’s second fight with Hit. And even when Hit learned to stop time, Goku was completely helpless against it even with SSB Kaioken...twice. Meaning Black would be affected by this as well.

Mind control probably won’t work on Black. Vegeta, back in the Buu saga, was capable of resisting Babidi’s mind hax, and given how Ki scaling works in Dragon Ball, it stands to reason that Black can do the same. That said, Thawne has other mind related abilities Black can’t resist, like reading his mind, swapping minds, knocking him out with a powerful mental attack, and more.

Thawne has existence erasure potent enough to erase someone from the entire timestream. Sure, Dragon Ball characters like Freeza, Goku, and Vegeta have resisted Hakai, which is also existence erasure, but not only is it fundamentally weaker since it doesn’t erase people from, you know, history itself and an entire fucking timeline/timestream, but said characters resisted Hakai after they ended up being much more powerful than Black. Either way, this ability can easily take out Zamasu, Beerus style.

Professor Zoom has the ability to age people to death. This can definitely work on normal Black since he’s not immune to that sort of ability. However, there’s been talk on if we should include Fused Zamasu for this fight, and while I’m personally against the notion since this is strictly a Goku Black fight, if we do give it to him, the aging wouldn’t work, given Fused Zamasu’s semi-immortality. So this ability working is kinda 50/50 I guess, just depends on if you think Fused Zamasu should be included.

Speaking of Fused Zamasu, might as well bring up the non-corporeal universe sized elephant in the room: even if we gave Black the form of Infinite Zamasu, Thawne still has a couple of abilities to counter it. The fact that he can literally nuke a timeline Flashpoint style, which Barry outright said he can do, is bad enough, but he also has an ability to manipulate anyone and anything’s energy flux. If said person’s energy flux even makes contact with Speed Force aura, the entire fucking universe blows up. Thawne can realistically do the same if anyone contacts with his own aura, meaning he can literally grab a random fucking hobo, make sure his energy flux is in contact with his aura, and nuke the entire universe alongside Infinite Zamasu, while Thawne himself is no worse for wear.

That’s a lot of hax, and a lot of them Black can’t counter, with even the ones I mentioned as a potential resistance having an asterisk to it. But is Thawne fast enough to use the-yes lol. Again, guy who’s only infinite speed with wank vs guy who blitzes infinite speed characters as a mid-end, and he’s easily smart enough to employ them immediately even in the hypothetical area where he’s outgunned in power. This is a man who has a 167 IQ, a man who understands how the Speed Force/Negative Speed Force works, and a man who’s intelligence rivals Barry, the guy who can learn how construction works and assemble a building, both in mere seconds. But you know what, let’s just be even nicer and assume Black somehow, in some inexplicable way, lands that lucky fatal blow he needs, whether it be a punch or a slice from his spatial cutting scythe.

Thawne just comes back to life less than a second later.

Thanks to Flashpoint making him unbound by time and affectively making him a walking time paradox, Thawne can’t be permanently killed, and even if he was, The Negative Speed Force can revive him like nothing ever happened, even if he’s killed by the likes of Doctor fucking Manhattan. Now granted, there is a way to bypass this, and that’s by destroying the Negative Speed Force in its entirety. Here’s the thing:

Black literally can’t do that. It’s impossible.

I hate that I have to get into this talk but DC cosmology time. As you can see in this model, The Speed Force is above The Bleed. How big is it exactly? At least 5th dimensional, with statements even putting it at infinite dimensional. Whether or not the latter is legitimate is debatable, but the point is that the Speed Force is above 5-D, which is enough for Black to realistically not be able to do anything to it. The Negative Speed Force is exactly like the regular Speed Force, except bad and evil™. In fact, Thawne literally converts Speed Force energy into more Negative Speed Force. It stands to reason that it’s also just as big in the spatial dimensional hierarchy, which is too big for Black to affect. Even giving him Heroes/Xenoverse would put him at 5-D at best, which still isn’t enough to affect a structure even bigger than that.

This means so long as the NSF exists, Thawne can constantly revive even if he somehow gets killed. This means even if it takes a while to revive, his ability to time travel, as well as feeling and knowing each and every single one of his deaths, means he can return to the fight picoseconds after he gets killed and land a sneak attack on Black with a punch or any of his hax.

This literally means Black has no win-con so long as the NSF exists

When the pain is immeasurable

It’s a bit of a shame this fight is this much of a stomp, but we can’t win everything. Even advantages Black has like mobility, skill, and projectile range mean jack in this fight. Don’t get me wrong, Goku Black is without a doubt one of the strongest, tenacious, and most terrifying antagonists and fighters in Dragon Ball, but the Reverse-Flash’s immense speed, more varied list of abilities and gadgets, exceptional intellect and trickery, and stupidly broken resurrection guarantee him a safe and easy win 10 times out of 10. My favorite fictional franchise had a long and nice win streak, and I’m super happy about that, but like the petty asshole he is, Thawne is going to end it just to piss off Barry.

Oh yeah, Barry is a fan of Dragon Ball in the CW. Poor lad’s gonna be upset

...yeesh, this ended up longer than I expected lol. Suppose that’s what happens when you get too invested in a match.

To get a bit sentimental, I’ll be honest and say I wasn’t really excited for this fight at first when it was announced. Aside from Bruce dying a third time (agony), one of my favorite characters and villains in fiction likely getting the short end of the stick because of how cool Thawne is for an entire waiting period where I’m expecting dozens upon dozens of memes and jabs at Black dying didn’t sound ideal. But I’m really happy that’s not the case. This waiting period was actually pretty nice, and I’m actually super pumped for this fight now, especially after doing pretty much a majority of Black’s section, which was probably the most fun I’ve ever had on any of these blogs. And I have my buds and pretty much everyone who worked on this blog to thank for making me excited for this now. Js, Pidge, Momo, Akhil, Robin, Joshki, Ani, Random, everyone: you all rule for making this wait time actually fun. 

I’m really looking forward to this fight, which was something I’d never thought I’d say, but I’m happy I can. Hopefully Black gets his respect in the analysis and animation a̶̶̶l̶̶̶s̶̶̶o̶̶̶ ̶̶̶s̶̶̶o̶̶̶r̶̶̶r̶̶̶y̶̶̶ ̶̶̶f̶̶̶o̶̶̶r̶̶̶ ̶̶̶m̶̶̶a̶̶̶k̶̶̶i̶̶̶n̶̶̶g̶̶̶ ̶̶̶a̶̶̶ ̶̶̶v̶̶̶e̶̶̶r̶̶̶d̶̶̶i̶̶̶c̶̶̶t̶̶̶ ̶̶̶t̶̶̶h̶̶̶i̶̶̶s̶̶̶ ̶̶̶l̶̶̶o̶̶̶n̶̶̶g̶̶̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶s̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶o̶b̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶m̶p̶ ̶I̶̶̶ ̶̶̶j̶̶̶u̶̶̶s̶̶̶t̶̶̶ ̶̶̶c̶̶̶a̶̶̶r̶̶̶e̶̶̶d̶̶̶ ̶̶̶t̶̶̶o̶̶̶o̶̶̶ ̶̶̶m̶̶̶u̶̶̶c̶̶̶h̶̶̶

In conclusion

Spider-Pidge

(“See me as I am, no longer afraid of anything!”)

Can’t believe I’m a prophet.

Anyways, hi there, Reverse-Flash wins.

For most other matches, I feel like I’d try to build up the results more but, I’ll be perfectly honest; I think most people went into this knowing Thawne’d win, and are at most curious if any new info came up that’d make things at least closer. And, well-

“No.”

Thawne taking speed goes without saying, he’s fought both Barry and Wally multiple times after Wally’s gone faster than his batshit amped feats while being unamped, which means upscaling from good ol’ instant teleportation and outracing his own voice on a higher dimensional plane. Hell, Barry’s outright admitted that Thawne is faster than him after Barry had to run faster than either of those feats. You can add as many multipliers as you want to the universe busting shockwaves or Beerus and Whis’ travels across the universe, you aren’t beating infinite or immeasurable speed by multiplying finite numbers.

AP and durability also goes to Thawne, since scaling to Wally’s fight with Anti-Monitor or the Flashes’ race that was tearing apart the multiverse are more than anything Black can dish out. At the very least, I do think the episode’ll portray Black as physically stronger, given their statements on the Infinite Mass Punch and how they’ve portrayed the past two Dragon Ball characters. But in terms of raw power output and what they can take, Professor Zoom takes it.

But hey, let’s be generous. Let’s say that Black did take the advantage in raw power, and did so to such a degree that Reverse-Flash’s punches could never hurt him. That uh, that still doesn’t help.

Firstly, Thawne outright bypasses Black’s acausality. His whole shtick is that his time travel rewrites history when others’ can’t, meaning that the Time Ring very likely wouldn’t defend against it. I almost hope they ignore that just cause the following interactions’d be nice to see, but realistically like, nah Thawne can just paradox frame 1. Even in the scenario where he can’t, Flashes can sense disturbances in space time, so Thawne reasonably could realize the Time Ring’s keeping Black from being paradoxed and can remove it shortly after.

Even without time shenanigans, though, Reverse-Flash has plenty that can take Zamasu out instantly. He can use destructive phasing that would bypass Black’s durability, can erase him from existence, can age him to dust, and can trap him in the Speed Force, which would either leave Black trapped forever or would murder him itself if he tried to leave it. Several of these are options Thawne does on the regular, and with all the time in the world due to an, again, infinite speed gap, Thawne’s guaranteed to pull one off before Black can do anything.

But hey, let’s give more benefit of the doubt. Let’s say that despite the literally incomprehensible speed gap, the fact that Thawne can just phase through everything and could reasonably tank most of it anyway, that Black gets a lucky hit in and actually manages to kill Thawne.

He just resurrects.

As long as the Negative Speed Force exists, it will revive Thawne with all his abilities and his memories of when he died, meaning he can go back to the literal picosecond he died originally and keep fighting. As you can imagine, the only way to stop that would be to affect the Negative Speed Force, and Black, y’know, can’t.

Zamasu quite literally does not have a single win-condition, even as a theoretical.

Now, let’s give one last benefit of the doubt, one that’s been thrown around a bit even if the show’s very, very unlikely to try using it. Let’s say Black can, say, fuse with his past self to become Fused Zamasu, and later Infinite Zamasu after his body is destroyed. Does Thawne have anything that could take out-

We’re pitting someone who died from timeline erasure against a man who can pull a Flashpoint.

I mean, what would you expect to happen?

Guess this is the one time where you never bet on Black. Eh, eh?

...Yeah, I’ll see myself out.

Js250476 

(How is Dokkan Battles OST this good like holy shit I still can’t believe it)

Hey there everyone it’s good to be back again. Batman vs Iron Man was a really good episode and I really enjoyed it and the next one coming is certainly a surprise that I’m happy to see. Goku Black vs Reverse Flash is a great match between two dark counterparts of the most well known heroes ever while also taking their lives,  families and whole futures with unrivaled anger and determination. So let’s head right in between these two as we Flash Forward through everything.

Starting off with Black he is coming with extremely impressive power and techniques he is far above Battle of Gods SSG Goku who nearly destroyed the entire universe 7 microcosm by clashing with Beerus. Universe 7 is at least 9 times the size of the normal universe due to it containing several universe sized space-time continuum such as the main universe, the afterlife and the Demon realm. And the shockwaves travelled across all of Universe 7 in seconds making them over at least 400 quadrillion times lightspeed. Black has fought on par and even bested Super Sayian Blue Goku and Vegeta on several occasions so he is significantly above these feats taking his much stronger Goku and Vegeta are by this point and possibly even more with multipliers taken into account but at the very least Black is much stronger then 9 times universal. 

For abilities Black like every living being in Dragon Ball can harness Ki allowing him access to a variety of different powerful attacks and abilities. He has flight allowing him great mobility, able to fire basic Ki blasts, create a blade of energy around his arm to slice and stab things, can fire multiple bladed attacks to stab a person’s body everywhere and explode, can channel his divine rage into power creating his Sickle of Sorrow a large energy scythe that can slice through and create rifts in space and time which can then open a way for clones called Shadows to come out of and fight alongside Black and can spawn more from it. Can unleash giant balls of energy to attack and destroy with, can shock and paralyze foes, and use some of Goku’s signature techniques like the Kamehameha for a devastating energy blast and Instant Transmission for instantaneous teleportation to travel long distances, escape from dangerous situations and set up sneak attacks on his foes. Not to mention able to get stronger from every damage taken from Zenkai Boost and his transformation Super Saiyan Rose which enhances all his Ki techniques, Zenkai Boost and drastically increases his strength and speed.

Now Thawne’s power is insanely high he’s gone up against Barry and Wally who nearly tore apart the fabric of the DC multiverse in a race and Wally destroyed the Anti Monitor’s armor who was destroying the entire DC multiverse which is infinite. With this Thawne should be Multiversal to Multiversal+. And with the name of his game speed Thawne has been a match for Barry and Wally with Barry even stating he’s faster than him and we’re talking about the same Flashes who’ve outran instantaneous transportation, defeated himself in a race, outran the concept of death itself, and think in attoseconds. Thawne has even gone fast enough to travel through time and run across time and space itself making him possibly immeasurable in speed.

As you’d expect The Negative Speed Force gives Thawne access to a insane amount of abilities he can generate large amount of energy, vibrate his molecules to phase through anything, tear apart molecules or remove vital organs, accelerate people’s aging, control minds, can trap someone in the Speed Force, erase someone from existence, slow down and stop time, travel through time and alter history even bypassing acausality, if he dies he can resurrect and return keeping all his memories from before and of course form lightsabers 

Yeah Thawne should take this he has greater power even using multipliers for Black he’s much faster to a immense degree and has several abilities Black can’t counter that can end it there (existence erasure, phasing, trapping in the Speed Force). Even with the Time Ring which makes someone unaffected by changes to the past, Thawne’s time travel can bypass acausality making it unlikely the Time Ring can defend against it and even if it could Thrawn being able to sense disruptions in space time and read minds makes it possible he can find out about this and take the ring. And even if Black is allowed to fuse with Zamasu and have Infinite Zamasu Thawne is able to erase the timeline which we’ve seen can erase Infinite Zamasu.

Every rose has it’s thorns but in this battle of the reverse Eobard Thawne will achieve victory

Random Guy #7

(Yes I’m aware my discord has “No. 7 list. Quit DMing me about it.)

So, something something Batman vs Iron Man was pretty good but nothing special my bet streak is still alive something something. What’s next time?

Sees RF vs GB

There were no accurate words that day to describe the sound I made seeing the trailer. Just know that I’m 99% sure my cats have bumped me up their hit list.

But anyways that’s enough background semantics, let’s get into the big stuff. Is Thawne vs Black debatable?

No. No it is not. But I’m still gonna talk about it anyway.

So let’s do a quick breakdown of their offensive abilities shall we? Let’s start with GB.

GB has: Duplication & Spatial Manip

Ok that’s…not a lot. But that’s potentially some form of a durability negation. Let’s see what Thawne has.

Thawne has: Matter Manip, Deconstruction, Rapid Aging, Mindhax, Corruption, BFR, Timehax, Possession, Energy Absorption, Existence Erasure, Acausality Negation & Duplication

Thawne has offensive abilities in spades, no doubt. But now let’s check out their defensive abilities.

In terms of defensive abilities, what does GB have? 

If you include Merged Zamasu, he negates Rapid Aging, and has a nice Acausality ring.

So that’s one ability for countering Thawne…out of 12 main wincons, and said defensive ability is completely optional and likely won’t be included & the other is outright negated by one of Thawne’s offensive abilities. Jeez.

Compare this to Thawne’s defensive abilities which are: Attack Reflection, Intangibility, Invisibility, Phasing/Mindhax negation, Cosmic Awareness, Paradoxical Immorta-

Wait a minute? Paradoxical immortality? As in: even if Black AP stomped to horrid degrees and red misted Thawne on sight that still wouldn’t stop him from just resurrecting or possessing a new host, and time traveling back to continue fighting Black? 

Yep. Thawne can do that. 

Keep in mind this whole time I’ve avoided talking about one particular topic: Stats. Because really, given Thawne’s mass plethora of hax, abilities, and defenses in comparison to Black’s, they’re nigh irrelevant.

However, even if you utilize every single multiplier, stacked on top of volume scaling, stacked on top of the multiplier methods used in Hulk vs Broly of all things, Thawne still is stronger from Anti Monitor, Barry, and Wally scaling. And this isn’t some minor gap Black can finesse around with some fancy DB style combat, it’s a literal infinite difference between the two. Black quite literally cannot grasp the concept of Thawne’s pure power.

And in terms of speed, it’s even WORSE. Even if you use the odd argument of Infinite DB (first of all, why?), Thawne still runs circles around it. Literally. This is the guy who ran across all of DC space-time seconds before Doctor Manhattan of all people could kill him, constantly broke through time itself in a scrap with Barry, and somehow managed to speed himself out of a realm outside of known reality before he could get EE’d. 

But none of this matters cus Black can fly.

No but seriously all joking aside, due to his superior physicals, offensive & defensive abilities, as well as built in life insurance Black can’t get past, Reverse Flash is the winner. 

Looks like Zamasu is about to have a damper put Thawne his plans.

Ok that was extra bad I’m sorry.

Robin 

Hey y’all! Last episode was pretty crazy. I totally choked on my bet, but at least we got a cool episode out of it. This time, however? I’m more than confident in my prediction for who will be winning this Death Battle. When you compare these two combatants, there’s simply one person who manages to come out on top in almost every single category that matters. This is such a wonderfully thematic matchup with a hell of a lot of animation potential, but in regards to being genuinely debatable it is anything but! Let’s delve into both Black and Thawne.

Zamasu is packing some pretty good stats via some scaling. Based on his fights with both Goku and Vegeta, Black is going to be sitting at the bare minimum of 9x universal and about 400 quadrillion times the speed of light! Just putting it here would be a bit of downplay though. I don’t typically enjoy using multipliers, but I think for Dragon Ball it might be the only legitimate way to get numbers for how much they upscale from the BOG arc at this point in time. What multipliers apply to Black are debatable, but he’s at least getting the 50x Super Saiyan multiplier to be at least 450x universal. Probably higher into the hundreds of thousands if you were to play the serious multiplier game and give him every single thing you can make even the tiniest of arguments scaling him to. I feel more comfortable with the bare minimum here, so let’s just say he’s definitely WAY higher than 9x universal. His speed shouldn’t really change much, but nothing you can argue for his speed about quadrillions really matters here for reasons you’ll see. As for abilities, he’s got some nice duplication to keep his opponent on his toes. Not to mention the Spatial Manipulation is a nice bit of hax from his Sickle of Sorrow! His usage of Ki gives him a wide variety of projectiles to fire and weapons to form as well, meaning Black has quite the kit going for him. For movement, he’s got the ability of flight and instant transmission. The former gives him overall impressive combat maneuverability and the latter gives him a handy way of escaping trouble or sneaking up on an opponent. For gear, he’s got acausality thanks to the time ring. Black really does have some nice stats and an interesting kit, but how does it stack up against Thawne?

Thawne’s scaling is debatable, as with all comic book characters. However, two people he regularly battles in Wally and Barry once threatened the entire multiverse when they raced/battled against one another and Wally was capable of destroying the Anti Monitor’s own armor! That’s pretty clear support for Eobard here being Multi+, but he can also safely be said to be multi. The DC Universe, according to Adam Strange, is at least 200 trillion light years in diameter! This would make Thawne, by extension of scaling to people like Hal, Kyle, and other heralds with “universal” DC feats actually a couple billion times universal just by scaling to your more typical heralds! As for speed? Simply put, Thawne has traveled through time with sheer speed alone, kept up and has even been said to be faster than Barry and Wally, and has kept or blitzed nearly everyone he’s ever fought with. At bare minimum, he’s going to be packing speeds in the duodecillions of times speed of light and more realistically should be simply immeasurable through scaling to Wally and Barry and through his time travel capable speed. Wally and Barry might technically be way faster than immeasurable, but I’m not bringing up the immeasurapliers right now. As for abilities, Thawn is capable of mindhaxxing his opponents, manipulating memories, screwing with someone’s energy influx, phasing through them and messing up their molecules, rapidly aging people to death, and straight up erasing them from existence amongst other things. He’s not really lacking in abilities, and what I’ve mentioned above is only a fraction of what he can do with the Negative Speed Force.

How do they compare? Let’s look at the stats.

Goku Black

Attack Potency: Multiversal (Massively upscaling from 9x Universal)

Speed: 400+ Quadrillion C

Durability: Multiversal (Same as his AP)

The Reverse Flash

Attack Potency: Multiversal+

Speed: Immeasurable

Durability: Multiversal+

And there you have it! Goku Black doesn’t take a single category of the stat trinity when compared to Thawne. He doesn’t quite catch up in the abilities department either, as Thawne has plenty of tools at his disposal to help him win so that even if he didn’t have strength and durability, his speed would still guarantee him an easy win against the infinitely slower Goku Black. Goku Black’s only resistance seems to be to time traveling, but it’s possible to argue that Thawne can negate this entirely. He can also just, you know, remove the ring! Black doesn’t have a single resistance against the immense amount of methods Thawne has towards ending the fight almost immediately. Black’s only real advantage might debatably be experience, but Thawne isn’t exactly lacking when it comes to the amount of times he’s gotten into scuffles. Not to mention, Black has NEVER had to experience someone on Thawne’s level, while Thawne has experience dealing with people that could make the entire Dragon Ball universe look like a complete joke. Dragon Ball has had a good six year win streak, but everything is pointing to this being the end. 

I’m afraid Goku Black is going to be joining the original host of his body in the loser’s corner. Eobard Thawne is going to be the only time traveling copycat coming out of this fight alive.